Essence licence to be reviewed after 'Kingston's worst incident'

Surrey Comet: Essence: Called before councillors Essence: Called before councillors

Kingston police have applied for an urgent review of the Essence nightclub’s licence following a mass brawl involving up to 30 people.

Two people were taken to hospital after the violence at the Bucklands Wharf site, at about 2am on Saturday morning.

The police’s application will be heard by councillors at a licensing sub-committee meeting tomorrow night at the Guildhall.

Chief Inspector Gary Taylor said: “It’s the biggest act of civil disobedience I’ve ever seen in Kingston.”

He said some people grabbed scaffolding and spades during the brawl, that a man was seen lying unconscious in the road and that one person fell into the river.

Richard Kay, director at the nearby Osiers Court flats said: "I should imagine everybody in the block will be delighted to hear if the licence is revoked, especially those on the ground floor.

"There's always problems down there. Since the club opened it’s had a few name changes but there's always been trouble.

"You almost get used to hearing the police sirens on a Friday and Saturday night."

Conservative councillor Andrea Craig said: “This is really quite shocking, I have to say.

“From what I have been told it sounds horrific."

The Canbury ward representative criticised Kingston Council for failing to "grasp the nettle" when dealing with troublespots in the town centre area.

She said: “Residents have completely had enough of what’s happening in the town centre.

“There is a loss of faith with the administration.”

But Kingston Council leader Liz Green said: "I think Andrea and her colleagues are very good at criticising in hindsight.

"Obviously any incident like this is regrettable, and from what I have been told it sounds like a particularly nasty one.

"Kingston Council will hold the review requested by police and I would not like to comment on what the councillors on the committee will decide."

Five people were arrested in connection with the incident.

A 23-year-old man was arrested on suspicion of affray and GBH.

A 27-year-old man and a 28-year-old man were arrested on suspicion of affray, another 27-year-old man was arrested on suspicion of affray and possession of class A drugs and a 33-year-old woman arrested on suspicion of being drunk and disorderly and assaulting a police officer.

All have been bailed to return later this month or next month.

TODAY'S HEADLINES IN KINGSTON UPON THAMES

Comments (30)

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12:14pm Mon 9 Dec 13

DB says...

It would be great to see this shut down. I don't live anywhere near it, but I can only sympathise with people who do.

There seems to be a real effort going on at the moment to make that part of Kingston much more attractive to all types of people at night with the new selection of restaurants going in there.

Having these kiddy nightclubs like Essence and McClusky's in the area would really deter anyone over the age of 25 going to that area of the town, so I am sure that the owners of other surrounding businesses will also be pleased to see one of them go.

Now that Oceana has been allowed to re-open, there has to be a review of how many of these nightclubs Kingston can support. Oceana must have a detrimental affect on the trade of the nearby Rotunda, but apart from that it is quite well placed as it is close to both train and bus stations to get people in and out quickly and it is right on the one way system to allow the police quick access to get rid of the ones who don't want to leave so quietly.
It would be great to see this shut down. I don't live anywhere near it, but I can only sympathise with people who do. There seems to be a real effort going on at the moment to make that part of Kingston much more attractive to all types of people at night with the new selection of restaurants going in there. Having these kiddy nightclubs like Essence and McClusky's in the area would really deter anyone over the age of 25 going to that area of the town, so I am sure that the owners of other surrounding businesses will also be pleased to see one of them go. Now that Oceana has been allowed to re-open, there has to be a review of how many of these nightclubs Kingston can support. Oceana must have a detrimental affect on the trade of the nearby Rotunda, but apart from that it is quite well placed as it is close to both train and bus stations to get people in and out quickly and it is right on the one way system to allow the police quick access to get rid of the ones who don't want to leave so quietly. DB

2:42pm Mon 9 Dec 13

Rob London says...

Keep the exterior of all these clubs and all the areas within the RBK which are prone to public disorder...under constant CCTV surveillance. At the very first inducation of possible trouble, ensure an immediate Police response. Upon arrests being made, insist the CPS then the Courts severely punish these criminals to the fullest extent possible. Show no mercy nor forgiveness!!! Teach All Criminals A Lesson By Disrupting Their Lives Through Severe Fines, Public Work Orders, And Imprisonment!!! Make All Criminals Pay Double...For Their Criminality!!!
Keep the exterior of all these clubs and all the areas within the RBK which are prone to public disorder...under constant CCTV surveillance. At the very first inducation of possible trouble, ensure an immediate Police response. Upon arrests being made, insist the CPS then the Courts severely punish these criminals to the fullest extent possible. Show no mercy nor forgiveness!!! Teach All Criminals A Lesson By Disrupting Their Lives Through Severe Fines, Public Work Orders, And Imprisonment!!! Make All Criminals Pay Double...For Their Criminality!!! Rob London

3:27pm Mon 9 Dec 13

DB says...

Rob London wrote:
Keep the exterior of all these clubs and all the areas within the RBK which are prone to public disorder...under constant CCTV surveillance. At the very first inducation of possible trouble, ensure an immediate Police response. Upon arrests being made, insist the CPS then the Courts severely punish these criminals to the fullest extent possible. Show no mercy nor forgiveness!!! Teach All Criminals A Lesson By Disrupting Their Lives Through Severe Fines, Public Work Orders, And Imprisonment!!! Make All Criminals Pay Double...For Their Criminality!!!
The problem is that a lot of the trouble starts inside the clubs and then spills outside. The club owners try to handle it with their own security staff so as not to get yet another police call-out against their club's name.

By the time the police are eventually called, it has got out of control and turned into an incident like this.

The clubs themselves are to blame by not operating a strict enough door policy and then plying their punters with cheap booze and drugs which is likely to lead to a flashpoint more often than not.

Unfotunately, I can't see a way around it without shutting the clubs down. Kingston's clubs have become known as places to come and create trouble for people from miles around (how many people caught committing crimes in there are actually from Kingston borough?) and they no longer seem to serve any other purpose.

I am not trying to say that 'Kingston clubs should only be for Kingston kids', but you do have a situation where people seem to be travelling half way across London for something that could hardly be classed as a unique night out.
[quote][p][bold]Rob London[/bold] wrote: Keep the exterior of all these clubs and all the areas within the RBK which are prone to public disorder...under constant CCTV surveillance. At the very first inducation of possible trouble, ensure an immediate Police response. Upon arrests being made, insist the CPS then the Courts severely punish these criminals to the fullest extent possible. Show no mercy nor forgiveness!!! Teach All Criminals A Lesson By Disrupting Their Lives Through Severe Fines, Public Work Orders, And Imprisonment!!! Make All Criminals Pay Double...For Their Criminality!!![/p][/quote]The problem is that a lot of the trouble starts inside the clubs and then spills outside. The club owners try to handle it with their own security staff so as not to get yet another police call-out against their club's name. By the time the police are eventually called, it has got out of control and turned into an incident like this. The clubs themselves are to blame by not operating a strict enough door policy and then plying their punters with cheap booze and drugs which is likely to lead to a flashpoint more often than not. Unfotunately, I can't see a way around it without shutting the clubs down. Kingston's clubs have become known as places to come and create trouble for people from miles around (how many people caught committing crimes in there are actually from Kingston borough?) and they no longer seem to serve any other purpose. I am not trying to say that 'Kingston clubs should only be for Kingston kids', but you do have a situation where people seem to be travelling half way across London for something that could hardly be classed as a unique night out. DB

3:40pm Mon 9 Dec 13

surboSam says...

I thought this club had closed down? Wasn't the owner found guilty of money laundering and intimidation?

Kingston council need to do more to support the police, they are completely wet when it comes to crime, and hide behind any figures that say they are doing well, maybe the former leader would have been caught sooner if they actually cared!
I thought this club had closed down? Wasn't the owner found guilty of money laundering and intimidation? Kingston council need to do more to support the police, they are completely wet when it comes to crime, and hide behind any figures that say they are doing well, maybe the former leader would have been caught sooner if they actually cared! surboSam

4:13pm Mon 9 Dec 13

Mind the gap says...

How the hell is Liz Green leader of the council

How are these people still in a job?? Why hasn't there been a full investigation into how the council has been run for the past 10 years, how much money was spent on Osbornes pet projects, the Rose Theatre etc?

Kingston council needs one serious shake up. When asked by a Lib Dem canidiate if I would be voting for her at a recent local by-election, I told her no as I wasn't happy with the service they were providing, she didn't ask why or offer to get someone to look into it, she just said I was entitled to my opinion and walked off. Says it all really, utter contempt for the people who keep them in their jobs and pay their salaries.
How the hell is Liz Green leader of the council How are these people still in a job?? Why hasn't there been a full investigation into how the council has been run for the past 10 years, how much money was spent on Osbornes pet projects, the Rose Theatre etc? Kingston council needs one serious shake up. When asked by a Lib Dem canidiate if I would be voting for her at a recent local by-election, I told her no as I wasn't happy with the service they were providing, she didn't ask why or offer to get someone to look into it, she just said I was entitled to my opinion and walked off. Says it all really, utter contempt for the people who keep them in their jobs and pay their salaries. Mind the gap

5:40pm Mon 9 Dec 13

captain_shamrock says...

surboSam wrote:
I thought this club had closed down? Wasn't the owner found guilty of money laundering and intimidation?

Kingston council need to do more to support the police, they are completely wet when it comes to crime, and hide behind any figures that say they are doing well, maybe the former leader would have been caught sooner if they actually cared!
Anyone with even a passing interest in local affairs would know that policing is the responsibility of Conservative Mayor, Boris Johnson. And not the council.

It is the job of our London Assembly Member, Conservative Tony Arbour, to represent our policing concerns, to ensure that we have sufficient police resources.

Unfortunately, Tory Arbour actually SUPPORTED Boris Johnson's recent policing cuts in Kingston. In fact he took his support for police cuts even further, and decided to attack the police themselves. Whilst MLA's across London were fighting to protect police numbers and budgets for their areas, our Tory Arbour decided to ATTACK the police instead:

"Regarding the loss of police officers in Kingston, Mr Arbour said: “It does not matter how many you have got, if they are all sitting in the office playing Angry Birds.” - Tony Arbour (June 2013)

Yep, rather than fight for more police in kingston, the Conservatives would rather insult them. Pathetic.

If you think we have a policing problem, it's clearly the responsibility and fault of the Tories.


.
[quote][p][bold]surboSam[/bold] wrote: I thought this club had closed down? Wasn't the owner found guilty of money laundering and intimidation? Kingston council need to do more to support the police, they are completely wet when it comes to crime, and hide behind any figures that say they are doing well, maybe the former leader would have been caught sooner if they actually cared![/p][/quote]Anyone with even a passing interest in local affairs would know that policing is the responsibility of Conservative Mayor, Boris Johnson. And not the council. It is the job of our London Assembly Member, Conservative Tony Arbour, to represent our policing concerns, to ensure that we have sufficient police resources. Unfortunately, Tory Arbour actually SUPPORTED Boris Johnson's recent policing cuts in Kingston. In fact he took his support for police cuts even further, and decided to attack the police themselves. Whilst MLA's across London were fighting to protect police numbers and budgets for their areas, our Tory Arbour decided to ATTACK the police instead: "Regarding the loss of police officers in Kingston, Mr Arbour said: “It does not matter how many you have got, if they are all sitting in the office playing Angry Birds.” - Tony Arbour (June 2013) Yep, rather than fight for more police in kingston, the Conservatives would rather insult them. Pathetic. If you think we have a policing problem, it's clearly the responsibility and fault of the Tories. . captain_shamrock

6:03pm Mon 9 Dec 13

OlBaloney says...

Mind the gap wrote:
How the hell is Liz Green leader of the council

How are these people still in a job?? Why hasn't there been a full investigation into how the council has been run for the past 10 years, how much money was spent on Osbornes pet projects, the Rose Theatre etc?

Kingston council needs one serious shake up. When asked by a Lib Dem canidiate if I would be voting for her at a recent local by-election, I told her no as I wasn't happy with the service they were providing, she didn't ask why or offer to get someone to look into it, she just said I was entitled to my opinion and walked off. Says it all really, utter contempt for the people who keep them in their jobs and pay their salaries.
Liz Green became leader of the council after Drek Osbourne was sent to prison for some extremely serious and disgusting perversions.

Her elevation in the LibDem hierarchy is called the 'Dunning Kruger effect'. The reality is that her successor has already been selected and she is simply acting as the temporary caretaker in the post. There's also the strong possibility that she will lose her own seat ( like numerous other LibDem councillors ) in May 2014 as Kingston's residents express their anger and disgust at this disgraceful LibDem 'administration'.
[quote][p][bold]Mind the gap[/bold] wrote: How the hell is Liz Green leader of the council How are these people still in a job?? Why hasn't there been a full investigation into how the council has been run for the past 10 years, how much money was spent on Osbornes pet projects, the Rose Theatre etc? Kingston council needs one serious shake up. When asked by a Lib Dem canidiate if I would be voting for her at a recent local by-election, I told her no as I wasn't happy with the service they were providing, she didn't ask why or offer to get someone to look into it, she just said I was entitled to my opinion and walked off. Says it all really, utter contempt for the people who keep them in their jobs and pay their salaries.[/p][/quote]Liz Green became leader of the council after Drek Osbourne was sent to prison for some extremely serious and disgusting perversions. Her elevation in the LibDem hierarchy is called the 'Dunning Kruger effect'. The reality is that her successor has already been selected and she is simply acting as the temporary caretaker in the post. There's also the strong possibility that she will lose her own seat ( like numerous other LibDem councillors ) in May 2014 as Kingston's residents express their anger and disgust at this disgraceful LibDem 'administration'. OlBaloney

7:02pm Mon 9 Dec 13

Dog whistle says...

Well what a surprise - do they have Scan Net that allegedly reduced the violence at Oceana? Nice for a media opportunity, but the reality looks very different. Good to see the Councillor Green and her cohorts (presumably Capt Shamrock is among their number) will review the situation...just terrific work. Their capacity for due diligence and insight is legendary - the activities of Derek Osborne is a perfect example.
Well what a surprise - do they have Scan Net that allegedly reduced the violence at Oceana? Nice for a media opportunity, but the reality looks very different. Good to see the Councillor Green and her cohorts (presumably Capt Shamrock is among their number) will review the situation...just terrific work. Their capacity for due diligence and insight is legendary - the activities of Derek Osborne is a perfect example. Dog whistle

9:11pm Mon 9 Dec 13

R Batson says...

Captain Shamrock says
"Anyone with even a passing interest in local affairs would know that policing is the responsibility of Conservative Mayor, Boris Johnson. And not the council.

It is the job of our London Assembly Member, Conservative Tony Arbour, to represent our policing concerns, to ensure that we have sufficient police resources.

Unfortunately, Tory Arbour actually SUPPORTED Boris Johnson's recent policing cuts in Kingston. In fact he took his support for police cuts even further, and decided to attack the police themselves. Whilst MLA's across London were fighting to protect police numbers and budgets for their areas, our Tory Arbour decided to ATTACK the police instead:

"Regarding the loss of police officers in Kingston, Mr Arbour said: “It does not matter how many you have got, if they are all sitting in the office playing Angry Birds.” - Tony Arbour (June 2013)

Yep, rather than fight for more police in kingston, the Conservatives would rather insult them. Pathetic.

If you think we have a policing problem, it's clearly the responsibility and fault of the Tories."

Hello Captain Shamrock the person who will not say who is and thus be open and transparent. Another writer recently indicated that he/or she is a liberal Democrat Cllr using an alias and thus if true deceit respecting the out put of information to the Council tax payers and voters of this borough . Would you please confirm or deny if you are Liberal Democrat Councillor please and do so by telling us who you really are in way that can be verified by any reader.

Tony Arbour is the attack this time, saying he is responsible for Policing. Let me make this very clear he is not and it is easy to check this on a simple google search by anyone with a passing interest in local affairs.

Tony did hold that office of responsibility a while back now under the then MPA i.e. the Metropolitan Police Authority. That was dissolved and become MOPAC i.e. the Mayors office of Policing and Crime run by a Deputy Mayor i.e. a local Government officer I believe because I do not think he was elected. This body oversees the Metropolitan Police now at a strategic level, setting goals with plans and targets. It holds the Commissioner of the Met accountable to them. The Deputy Mayor does not get involved in local matters of this kind though maybe perhaps where it has effected the overall strategy of everything across the MPD (Metropolitan Police District) In a fact there is now NO longer any local Police accountability much to my personal annoyance because I think that is very wrong and something I have been fighting for. The local neighborhood panels only set a small goal of activities relating to their specific wards, they to do not scrutinise the local Police. There is something now I believe about to or maybe has started at the Borough Council, what exactly that does I am not clear on yet. So No not Tony Arbour as Captain Shamrock states but maybe the Council under the Lib Dems though as I said I am not sure of that yet.
Captain Shamrock says "Anyone with even a passing interest in local affairs would know that policing is the responsibility of Conservative Mayor, Boris Johnson. And not the council. It is the job of our London Assembly Member, Conservative Tony Arbour, to represent our policing concerns, to ensure that we have sufficient police resources. Unfortunately, Tory Arbour actually SUPPORTED Boris Johnson's recent policing cuts in Kingston. In fact he took his support for police cuts even further, and decided to attack the police themselves. Whilst MLA's across London were fighting to protect police numbers and budgets for their areas, our Tory Arbour decided to ATTACK the police instead: "Regarding the loss of police officers in Kingston, Mr Arbour said: “It does not matter how many you have got, if they are all sitting in the office playing Angry Birds.” - Tony Arbour (June 2013) Yep, rather than fight for more police in kingston, the Conservatives would rather insult them. Pathetic. If you think we have a policing problem, it's clearly the responsibility and fault of the Tories." Hello Captain Shamrock the person who will not say who is and thus be open and transparent. Another writer recently indicated that he/or she is a liberal Democrat Cllr using an alias and thus if true deceit respecting the out put of information to the Council tax payers and voters of this borough . Would you please confirm or deny if you are Liberal Democrat Councillor please and do so by telling us who you really are in way that can be verified by any reader. Tony Arbour is the attack this time, saying he is responsible for Policing. Let me make this very clear he is not and it is easy to check this on a simple google search by anyone with a passing interest in local affairs. Tony did hold that office of responsibility a while back now under the then MPA i.e. the Metropolitan Police Authority. That was dissolved and become MOPAC i.e. the Mayors office of Policing and Crime run by a Deputy Mayor i.e. a local Government officer I believe because I do not think he was elected. This body oversees the Metropolitan Police now at a strategic level, setting goals with plans and targets. It holds the Commissioner of the Met accountable to them. The Deputy Mayor does not get involved in local matters of this kind though maybe perhaps where it has effected the overall strategy of everything across the MPD (Metropolitan Police District) In a fact there is now NO longer any local Police accountability much to my personal annoyance because I think that is very wrong and something I have been fighting for. The local neighborhood panels only set a small goal of activities relating to their specific wards, they to do not scrutinise the local Police. There is something now I believe about to or maybe has started at the Borough Council, what exactly that does I am not clear on yet. So No not Tony Arbour as Captain Shamrock states but maybe the Council under the Lib Dems though as I said I am not sure of that yet. R Batson

9:26pm Mon 9 Dec 13

captain_shamrock says...

Mind the gap wrote:
How the hell is Liz Green leader of the council

How are these people still in a job?? Why hasn't there been a full investigation into how the council has been run for the past 10 years, how much money was spent on Osbornes pet projects, the Rose Theatre etc?

Kingston council needs one serious shake up. When asked by a Lib Dem canidiate if I would be voting for her at a recent local by-election, I told her no as I wasn't happy with the service they were providing, she didn't ask why or offer to get someone to look into it, she just said I was entitled to my opinion and walked off. Says it all really, utter contempt for the people who keep them in their jobs and pay their salaries.
and has any of that bile got to do with the Tory's shameful attack on Kingston's hard working police force?

To repeat: the Tory mayor runs the police, not the council.

Kingston Tories can't complain about a policing problem when their party funs the police and cuts the police numbers on our streets.

It's rank hypocrisy for Tory trolls to call for support for the police while Tory MLA Arbour is disgracefully attackinb them.

If Kingston Tories had any morals, they'd apologise for Tory Arbour's comments.
[quote][p][bold]Mind the gap[/bold] wrote: How the hell is Liz Green leader of the council How are these people still in a job?? Why hasn't there been a full investigation into how the council has been run for the past 10 years, how much money was spent on Osbornes pet projects, the Rose Theatre etc? Kingston council needs one serious shake up. When asked by a Lib Dem canidiate if I would be voting for her at a recent local by-election, I told her no as I wasn't happy with the service they were providing, she didn't ask why or offer to get someone to look into it, she just said I was entitled to my opinion and walked off. Says it all really, utter contempt for the people who keep them in their jobs and pay their salaries.[/p][/quote]and has any of that bile got to do with the Tory's shameful attack on Kingston's hard working police force? To repeat: the Tory mayor runs the police, not the council. Kingston Tories can't complain about a policing problem when their party funs the police and cuts the police numbers on our streets. It's rank hypocrisy for Tory trolls to call for support for the police while Tory MLA Arbour is disgracefully attackinb them. If Kingston Tories had any morals, they'd apologise for Tory Arbour's comments. captain_shamrock

9:34pm Mon 9 Dec 13

captain_shamrock says...

Batson,

Tory Arbour was elected as our MLA to represent us in the London Assembly. He is meant to work on our behalf.

Instead, Tory Arbour acted as a cheerleader for Boris Johnson's policing cuts, which reduced the number of police on our streets.
Not content with cutting the number of police, Tory Arbour then proceeded to attack them, sayinv that they sat around playing Angry Birds instead of policing.

That is all fact. As is Boris' responsibility for policing.
Batson, Tory Arbour was elected as our MLA to represent us in the London Assembly. He is meant to work on our behalf. Instead, Tory Arbour acted as a cheerleader for Boris Johnson's policing cuts, which reduced the number of police on our streets. Not content with cutting the number of police, Tory Arbour then proceeded to attack them, sayinv that they sat around playing Angry Birds instead of policing. That is all fact. As is Boris' responsibility for policing. captain_shamrock

9:46am Tue 10 Dec 13

captain_shamrock says...

To Batson & the other Tory trolls,

here's an idiots guide (has the phrase been more apt?) to how policng works in Greater London. It is the sole resposibility of the Mayor and MLA's are meant to highlight concerns of people in their area.

From the official Mayoral election website:

http://goo.gl/NFqsBB


What the Mayor & MLAS are responsible for:

There are many areas of London life that are affected by the work of the Mayor of London and the London Assembly, such as
• POLICING
To Batson & the other Tory trolls, here's an idiots guide (has the phrase been more apt?) to how policng works in Greater London. It is the sole resposibility of the Mayor and MLA's are meant to highlight concerns of people in their area. From the official Mayoral election website: http://goo.gl/NFqsBB What the Mayor & MLAS are responsible for: There are many areas of London life that are affected by the work of the Mayor of London and the London Assembly, such as • POLICING captain_shamrock

9:47am Tue 10 Dec 13

captain_shamrock says...

To Batson & the other Tory trolls,

here's an idiot's guide (has the phrase been more apt?) to how policng works in Greater London. It is the sole resposibility of the Mayor and MLA's are meant to highlight concerns of people in their area.

From the official Mayoral election website:

http://goo.gl/NFqsBB


What the Mayor & MLAS are responsible for:

There are many areas of London life that are affected by the work of the Mayor of London and the London Assembly, such as
• POLICING !!!!
• transport
• housing
• planning
• the environment.

Policing:

•Policing in London is managed by the Mayor's Office for Policing and Crime (MOPC)
•The Mayor sets the budget for the Metropolitan Police in consultation with the Metropolitan Police commissioner, and provides their strategic goals
•The work of MOPC will be monitored by the London Assembly Police and Crime Panel
•Operational policing decisions are not made by the Mayor or the London Assembly
•The London Assembly highlight areas of concern for Londoners in relation to policing and police budgets, and encourage MOPC to tackle these
To Batson & the other Tory trolls, here's an idiot's guide (has the phrase been more apt?) to how policng works in Greater London. It is the sole resposibility of the Mayor and MLA's are meant to highlight concerns of people in their area. From the official Mayoral election website: http://goo.gl/NFqsBB What the Mayor & MLAS are responsible for: There are many areas of London life that are affected by the work of the Mayor of London and the London Assembly, such as • POLICING !!!! • transport • housing • planning • the environment. Policing: •Policing in London is managed by the Mayor's Office for Policing and Crime (MOPC) •The Mayor sets the budget for the Metropolitan Police in consultation with the Metropolitan Police commissioner, and provides their strategic goals •The work of MOPC will be monitored by the London Assembly Police and Crime Panel •Operational policing decisions are not made by the Mayor or the London Assembly •The London Assembly highlight areas of concern for Londoners in relation to policing and police budgets, and encourage MOPC to tackle these captain_shamrock

10:07am Tue 10 Dec 13

captain_shamrock says...

Batson et al,

Now that we're hopefully agreed that
1. the Tory Mayor is responsible for policing.
2. the job of our Tory MLA, Tony Arbour is to represent our policing concerns, to ensure that we have sufficient police resources.

I will repeat:

Unfortunately, Tory Arbour actually SUPPORTED Boris Johnson's recent policing cuts in Kingston.

In fact he took his support for police cuts even further, and decided to ATTACK the police themselves!

Whilst Labour & Lib Dem MLA's across London were fighting to protect police numbers and budgets for their individual areas, our Tory Arbour decided to support the cuts and ATTACK the police instead:

"Regarding the loss of police officers in Kingston, Mr Arbour said: “It does not matter how many you have got, if they are all sitting in the office playing Angry Birds.” - Tony Arbour (June 2013)

Yep, rather than fight for more police in Kingston, the Conservatives would rather insult them. And then try to accuse the Lib Dem council of not supporting the police.

Dishonest. Fraudulent. Pathetic.
You must think Kingston public are a bunch of idiots.
Rule #1 of life. Never trust a Tory.
Batson et al, Now that we're hopefully agreed that 1. the Tory Mayor is responsible for policing. 2. the job of our Tory MLA, Tony Arbour is to represent our policing concerns, to ensure that we have sufficient police resources. I will repeat: Unfortunately, Tory Arbour actually SUPPORTED Boris Johnson's recent policing cuts in Kingston. In fact he took his support for police cuts even further, and decided to ATTACK the police themselves! Whilst Labour & Lib Dem MLA's across London were fighting to protect police numbers and budgets for their individual areas, our Tory Arbour decided to support the cuts and ATTACK the police instead: "Regarding the loss of police officers in Kingston, Mr Arbour said: “It does not matter how many you have got, if they are all sitting in the office playing Angry Birds.” - Tony Arbour (June 2013) Yep, rather than fight for more police in Kingston, the Conservatives would rather insult them. And then try to accuse the Lib Dem council of not supporting the police. Dishonest. Fraudulent. Pathetic. You must think Kingston public are a bunch of idiots. Rule #1 of life. Never trust a Tory. captain_shamrock

11:33am Tue 10 Dec 13

DB says...

I won't get involved with the political point scoring, but what captain_shamrock's comments illustrate to me is that as Kingston residents, we are getting a bad deal both from the council AND the London-wide authorities.

I agree that Kingston should not have it's policing decided at a London level. Kingston is seen as a wealthy,safe, leafy suburb by those in City Hall, so we will never get priority over, say, Hackney when money is being spent.

Over the borough as a whole this is probably fair enough, but the Grove Ward that covers Kingston town centre has one of the highest number of indidences of reported crimes after dark anywhere in London. It is a nasty, violent pocket of trouble within an otherwise very safe area.

The blame for this must sit with Kingston Council (both Tories & Lib Dems have been in power in the past 20 years) who continually renew premises licences for habitual bad offenders like the clubs mentioned here, the Kings Tun pub etc, etc. If you look at the crime figures in Kingston, the amount that take place in the 'top 10' bad premises is beyond belief. It is not like thr clubs don't give the council the excuses to shut them down!

I'd agree that Kingston Council cannot control the disgraceful cuts in the police provision that we have been subjected to, but prevention is better than cure. By making Kingston a less attractive place to come and commit crime, the police cuts would be a little easier to manage.
I won't get involved with the political point scoring, but what captain_shamrock's comments illustrate to me is that as Kingston residents, we are getting a bad deal both from the council AND the London-wide authorities. I agree that Kingston should not have it's policing decided at a London level. Kingston is seen as a wealthy,safe, leafy suburb by those in City Hall, so we will never get priority over, say, Hackney when money is being spent. Over the borough as a whole this is probably fair enough, but the Grove Ward that covers Kingston town centre has one of the highest number of indidences of reported crimes after dark anywhere in London. It is a nasty, violent pocket of trouble within an otherwise very safe area. The blame for this must sit with Kingston Council (both Tories & Lib Dems have been in power in the past 20 years) who continually renew premises licences for habitual bad offenders like the clubs mentioned here, the Kings Tun pub etc, etc. If you look at the crime figures in Kingston, the amount that take place in the 'top 10' bad premises is beyond belief. It is not like thr clubs don't give the council the excuses to shut them down! I'd agree that Kingston Council cannot control the disgraceful cuts in the police provision that we have been subjected to, but prevention is better than cure. By making Kingston a less attractive place to come and commit crime, the police cuts would be a little easier to manage. DB

12:13pm Tue 10 Dec 13

captain_shamrock says...

DB,

if you were fair and balanced, you'd have already pointed out that the current council is desperate to close these clubs down, but lack the legal basis to do so.

I'd have expected you to highlight that Kingston Council and the police, working together, shut down Oceana in Nov 2012 after the latest stabbing (fatal) there.

The council and the police both wanted the shut down to be permanent, but Luminar then appealed the shut down notice, forcing a reopening. The council spent many tens of thousands on fighting this legal action taken by Luminar. Unfortunately, under current legislation, the council were advised that they were more likely to lose rather than win the appeal.

Faced with this, the council, the police, and Luminar came up with some agreement that is far from ideal, but the best that could realistically be obtained in the legal circumstances. That's the grim reality of the situation today.

The law desperately needs reformed so that local commuities can decide if they want these night clubs or not, and the terms on which they operate. It's shameful that the clubs hoover up the money, yet aren't legally obliged to pay for the police, A&E, cleaning, and vandalism bills that result from their presence.

I agree totally with your comments about Kingston not getting any sort of quid pro quo for hosting these leech like enterprises. I made almost identical comments to your own several years ago. Analysis of the resdience of the stab victims at Oceana over the years shows that the clubbers came from a huge area stretching from SE London to Watford.

These are not well managed local clubs for local young people, and Kingston gets nothing but trouble from having them. The quicker local communties are given real powers over the terms under which these established clubs operate, the better.

In the meantime, whilst this flawed legal situation remains, it's all the more vital that the Tories are seen to support the police on the streets of Kingston.

Frankly, it's embarassing for our town to have Tory Arbour championing cuts in police numbers and then ATTACKING the police for good measure. All the moreso when Labour & Lib Dem assembly members were fighting hard to resist police cuts in their areas.
DB, if you were fair and balanced, you'd have already pointed out that the current council is desperate to close these clubs down, but lack the legal basis to do so. I'd have expected you to highlight that Kingston Council and the police, working together, shut down Oceana in Nov 2012 after the latest stabbing (fatal) there. The council and the police both wanted the shut down to be permanent, but Luminar then appealed the shut down notice, forcing a reopening. The council spent many tens of thousands on fighting this legal action taken by Luminar. Unfortunately, under current legislation, the council were advised that they were more likely to lose rather than win the appeal. Faced with this, the council, the police, and Luminar came up with some agreement that is far from ideal, but the best that could realistically be obtained in the legal circumstances. That's the grim reality of the situation today. The law desperately needs reformed so that local commuities can decide if they want these night clubs or not, and the terms on which they operate. It's shameful that the clubs hoover up the money, yet aren't legally obliged to pay for the police, A&E, cleaning, and vandalism bills that result from their presence. I agree totally with your comments about Kingston not getting any sort of quid pro quo for hosting these leech like enterprises. I made almost identical comments to your own several years ago. Analysis of the resdience of the stab victims at Oceana over the years shows that the clubbers came from a huge area stretching from SE London to Watford. These are not well managed local clubs for local young people, and Kingston gets nothing but trouble from having them. The quicker local communties are given real powers over the terms under which these established clubs operate, the better. In the meantime, whilst this flawed legal situation remains, it's all the more vital that the Tories are seen to support the police on the streets of Kingston. Frankly, it's embarassing for our town to have Tory Arbour championing cuts in police numbers and then ATTACKING the police for good measure. All the moreso when Labour & Lib Dem assembly members were fighting hard to resist police cuts in their areas. captain_shamrock

1:22pm Tue 10 Dec 13

OlBaloney says...

captain_shamrock wrote:
DB,

if you were fair and balanced, you'd have already pointed out that the current council is desperate to close these clubs down, but lack the legal basis to do so.

I'd have expected you to highlight that Kingston Council and the police, working together, shut down Oceana in Nov 2012 after the latest stabbing (fatal) there.

The council and the police both wanted the shut down to be permanent, but Luminar then appealed the shut down notice, forcing a reopening. The council spent many tens of thousands on fighting this legal action taken by Luminar. Unfortunately, under current legislation, the council were advised that they were more likely to lose rather than win the appeal.

Faced with this, the council, the police, and Luminar came up with some agreement that is far from ideal, but the best that could realistically be obtained in the legal circumstances. That's the grim reality of the situation today.

The law desperately needs reformed so that local commuities can decide if they want these night clubs or not, and the terms on which they operate. It's shameful that the clubs hoover up the money, yet aren't legally obliged to pay for the police, A&E, cleaning, and vandalism bills that result from their presence.

I agree totally with your comments about Kingston not getting any sort of quid pro quo for hosting these leech like enterprises. I made almost identical comments to your own several years ago. Analysis of the resdience of the stab victims at Oceana over the years shows that the clubbers came from a huge area stretching from SE London to Watford.

These are not well managed local clubs for local young people, and Kingston gets nothing but trouble from having them. The quicker local communties are given real powers over the terms under which these established clubs operate, the better.

In the meantime, whilst this flawed legal situation remains, it's all the more vital that the Tories are seen to support the police on the streets of Kingston.

Frankly, it's embarassing for our town to have Tory Arbour championing cuts in police numbers and then ATTACKING the police for good measure. All the moreso when Labour & Lib Dem assembly members were fighting hard to resist police cuts in their areas.
I disagree with the majority of agitprop which the LibDem shill, captain_shamrock, interminably pumps out on the Comet website.

One point I distinctly agree with, the police generally do an excellent job.

They certainly did the day they arrested his leader, ex-Libdem councillor Drek Osbourne.
[quote][p][bold]captain_shamrock[/bold] wrote: DB, if you were fair and balanced, you'd have already pointed out that the current council is desperate to close these clubs down, but lack the legal basis to do so. I'd have expected you to highlight that Kingston Council and the police, working together, shut down Oceana in Nov 2012 after the latest stabbing (fatal) there. The council and the police both wanted the shut down to be permanent, but Luminar then appealed the shut down notice, forcing a reopening. The council spent many tens of thousands on fighting this legal action taken by Luminar. Unfortunately, under current legislation, the council were advised that they were more likely to lose rather than win the appeal. Faced with this, the council, the police, and Luminar came up with some agreement that is far from ideal, but the best that could realistically be obtained in the legal circumstances. That's the grim reality of the situation today. The law desperately needs reformed so that local commuities can decide if they want these night clubs or not, and the terms on which they operate. It's shameful that the clubs hoover up the money, yet aren't legally obliged to pay for the police, A&E, cleaning, and vandalism bills that result from their presence. I agree totally with your comments about Kingston not getting any sort of quid pro quo for hosting these leech like enterprises. I made almost identical comments to your own several years ago. Analysis of the resdience of the stab victims at Oceana over the years shows that the clubbers came from a huge area stretching from SE London to Watford. These are not well managed local clubs for local young people, and Kingston gets nothing but trouble from having them. The quicker local communties are given real powers over the terms under which these established clubs operate, the better. In the meantime, whilst this flawed legal situation remains, it's all the more vital that the Tories are seen to support the police on the streets of Kingston. Frankly, it's embarassing for our town to have Tory Arbour championing cuts in police numbers and then ATTACKING the police for good measure. All the moreso when Labour & Lib Dem assembly members were fighting hard to resist police cuts in their areas.[/p][/quote]I disagree with the majority of agitprop which the LibDem shill, captain_shamrock, interminably pumps out on the Comet website. One point I distinctly agree with, the police generally do an excellent job. They certainly did the day they arrested his leader, ex-Libdem councillor Drek Osbourne. OlBaloney

1:51pm Tue 10 Dec 13

captain_shamrock says...

OlBaloney,

Yet again, when faced with overwhelming evidence that you're utterly wrong, all you can do is revert to invoking the Kingston Tory troll version of Godwin's Law.

What sort of low life tries to exploit the very real and traumatic sexual abuse of young children to divert from the real local issues of
1. too many nightclubs and
2. Tories cutting and then attacking our local police service

You're morally bankrupt and have nothing more to offer the decent law abiding & law supporting people of Kingston I don't know who the Tory PR person is, but, on grounds of decency, they should really try to muzzle you lot.
OlBaloney, Yet again, when faced with overwhelming evidence that you're utterly wrong, all you can do is revert to invoking the Kingston Tory troll version of Godwin's Law. What sort of low life tries to exploit the very real and traumatic sexual abuse of young children to divert from the real local issues of 1. too many nightclubs and 2. Tories cutting and then attacking our local police service You're morally bankrupt and have nothing more to offer the decent law abiding & law supporting people of Kingston I don't know who the Tory PR person is, but, on grounds of decency, they should really try to muzzle you lot. captain_shamrock

3:03pm Tue 10 Dec 13

OlBaloney says...

captain_shamrock wrote:
OlBaloney,

Yet again, when faced with overwhelming evidence that you're utterly wrong, all you can do is revert to invoking the Kingston Tory troll version of Godwin's Law.

What sort of low life tries to exploit the very real and traumatic sexual abuse of young children to divert from the real local issues of
1. too many nightclubs and
2. Tories cutting and then attacking our local police service

You're morally bankrupt and have nothing more to offer the decent law abiding & law supporting people of Kingston I don't know who the Tory PR person is, but, on grounds of decency, they should really try to muzzle you lot.
captain_shamcock,I really wish I had half the spare time that you have to devote to this website but some of us have to work long hours to pay the highest Council Tax in London. That, along with Drek Osbourne will be the legacy left by the LibDems when they are ejected from office next year. Until then, keep busy bashing the keyboards.
[quote][p][bold]captain_shamrock[/bold] wrote: OlBaloney, Yet again, when faced with overwhelming evidence that you're utterly wrong, all you can do is revert to invoking the Kingston Tory troll version of Godwin's Law. What sort of low life tries to exploit the very real and traumatic sexual abuse of young children to divert from the real local issues of 1. too many nightclubs and 2. Tories cutting and then attacking our local police service You're morally bankrupt and have nothing more to offer the decent law abiding & law supporting people of Kingston I don't know who the Tory PR person is, but, on grounds of decency, they should really try to muzzle you lot.[/p][/quote]captain_shamcock,I really wish I had half the spare time that you have to devote to this website but some of us have to work long hours to pay the highest Council Tax in London. That, along with Drek Osbourne will be the legacy left by the LibDems when they are ejected from office next year. Until then, keep busy bashing the keyboards. OlBaloney

3:55pm Tue 10 Dec 13

captain_shamrock says...

OK, I'll make it quick & easy for you then. Here's a quick teabreak quiz.

1. What local politician is meant to represent our policing concerns, to ensure that we have sufficient police resources? Is it

A. Marilyn Manson
B. Charles Manson
C. Patrick Bateman
D. Conservative MLA Tony Arbour


2. What local politician in June 2013 enthusiastically supported Boris Johnson cutting the number of police on Kingson's streets? Is it

A. Mollie King (clue: the blonde from The Saturdays)
B. General Pinochet (clue: you Tories know him already)
C. Ted Bundy
D. Conservative MLA Tony Arbour


3. What local politician in June 2013 famously attacked the police, stating: "Regarding the loss of police officers in Kingston, XXXXX said: “It does not matter how many you have got, if they are all sitting in the office playing Angry Birds”. Is it

A. Mylene Klass
B. Vlad the Impaler
C. Dr. Hannibal Lecter
D. Conservative MLA Tony Arbour


Answers on a postcard to Sociopaths'R'Us, c/o Kingston Conservative Association, NoSuchThingAsSociety Street, Kingston. Closing Date 22nd May 2014. No complaints of cronyism, automatic planning permission for El Gordo's consultancy clients, tax dodging, tax cuts for the rich, public sector asset stripping for Eton mates, privatised schools with unqualified teachers, NHS shambles, etc etc accepted after this date. Selfish Bstard Bullingdon Dining Club rules apply.
OK, I'll make it quick & easy for you then. Here's a quick teabreak quiz. 1. What local politician is meant to represent our policing concerns, to ensure that we have sufficient police resources? Is it A. Marilyn Manson B. Charles Manson C. Patrick Bateman D. Conservative MLA Tony Arbour 2. What local politician in June 2013 enthusiastically supported Boris Johnson cutting the number of police on Kingson's streets? Is it A. Mollie King (clue: the blonde from The Saturdays) B. General Pinochet (clue: you Tories know him already) C. Ted Bundy D. Conservative MLA Tony Arbour 3. What local politician in June 2013 famously attacked the police, stating: "Regarding the loss of police officers in Kingston, XXXXX said: “It does not matter how many you have got, if they are all sitting in the office playing Angry Birds”. Is it A. Mylene Klass B. Vlad the Impaler C. Dr. Hannibal Lecter D. Conservative MLA Tony Arbour Answers on a postcard to Sociopaths'R'Us, c/o Kingston Conservative Association, NoSuchThingAsSociety Street, Kingston. Closing Date 22nd May 2014. No complaints of cronyism, automatic planning permission for El Gordo's consultancy clients, tax dodging, tax cuts for the rich, public sector asset stripping for Eton mates, privatised schools with unqualified teachers, NHS shambles, etc etc accepted after this date. Selfish Bstard Bullingdon Dining Club rules apply. captain_shamrock

4:07pm Tue 10 Dec 13

DB says...

captain_shamrock wrote:
DB, if you were fair and balanced, you'd have already pointed out that the current council is desperate to close these clubs down, but lack the legal basis to do so. I'd have expected you to highlight that Kingston Council and the police, working together, shut down Oceana in Nov 2012 after the latest stabbing (fatal) there. The council and the police both wanted the shut down to be permanent, but Luminar then appealed the shut down notice, forcing a reopening. The council spent many tens of thousands on fighting this legal action taken by Luminar. Unfortunately, under current legislation, the council were advised that they were more likely to lose rather than win the appeal. Faced with this, the council, the police, and Luminar came up with some agreement that is far from ideal, but the best that could realistically be obtained in the legal circumstances. That's the grim reality of the situation today. The law desperately needs reformed so that local commuities can decide if they want these night clubs or not, and the terms on which they operate. It's shameful that the clubs hoover up the money, yet aren't legally obliged to pay for the police, A&E, cleaning, and vandalism bills that result from their presence. I agree totally with your comments about Kingston not getting any sort of quid pro quo for hosting these leech like enterprises. I made almost identical comments to your own several years ago. Analysis of the resdience of the stab victims at Oceana over the years shows that the clubbers came from a huge area stretching from SE London to Watford. These are not well managed local clubs for local young people, and Kingston gets nothing but trouble from having them. The quicker local communties are given real powers over the terms under which these established clubs operate, the better. In the meantime, whilst this flawed legal situation remains, it's all the more vital that the Tories are seen to support the police on the streets of Kingston. Frankly, it's embarassing for our town to have Tory Arbour championing cuts in police numbers and then ATTACKING the police for good measure. All the moreso when Labour & Lib Dem assembly members were fighting hard to resist police cuts in their areas.
I understand what you are saying, but surely we are getting to the situation where there is no point in having a local council at all if other parts of the UK's massive state system have removed all of it's powers?

You get into situations where the council are spending thousands looking out for residents rights on issues like nightclubs, Ravens Ait or transport and the courts or TfL just over-rule them. Who has won then apart from the legal system?

I don't blame the Lib Dems for this as I strongly believe the Tories would be just the same faced with these challenges and Labour even worse,
[quote][p][bold]captain_shamrock[/bold] wrote: DB, if you were fair and balanced, you'd have already pointed out that the current council is desperate to close these clubs down, but lack the legal basis to do so. I'd have expected you to highlight that Kingston Council and the police, working together, shut down Oceana in Nov 2012 after the latest stabbing (fatal) there. The council and the police both wanted the shut down to be permanent, but Luminar then appealed the shut down notice, forcing a reopening. The council spent many tens of thousands on fighting this legal action taken by Luminar. Unfortunately, under current legislation, the council were advised that they were more likely to lose rather than win the appeal. Faced with this, the council, the police, and Luminar came up with some agreement that is far from ideal, but the best that could realistically be obtained in the legal circumstances. That's the grim reality of the situation today. The law desperately needs reformed so that local commuities can decide if they want these night clubs or not, and the terms on which they operate. It's shameful that the clubs hoover up the money, yet aren't legally obliged to pay for the police, A&E, cleaning, and vandalism bills that result from their presence. I agree totally with your comments about Kingston not getting any sort of quid pro quo for hosting these leech like enterprises. I made almost identical comments to your own several years ago. Analysis of the resdience of the stab victims at Oceana over the years shows that the clubbers came from a huge area stretching from SE London to Watford. These are not well managed local clubs for local young people, and Kingston gets nothing but trouble from having them. The quicker local communties are given real powers over the terms under which these established clubs operate, the better. In the meantime, whilst this flawed legal situation remains, it's all the more vital that the Tories are seen to support the police on the streets of Kingston. Frankly, it's embarassing for our town to have Tory Arbour championing cuts in police numbers and then ATTACKING the police for good measure. All the moreso when Labour & Lib Dem assembly members were fighting hard to resist police cuts in their areas.[/p][/quote]I understand what you are saying, but surely we are getting to the situation where there is no point in having a local council at all if other parts of the UK's massive state system have removed all of it's powers? You get into situations where the council are spending thousands looking out for residents rights on issues like nightclubs, Ravens Ait or transport and the courts or TfL just over-rule them. Who has won then apart from the legal system? I don't blame the Lib Dems for this as I strongly believe the Tories would be just the same faced with these challenges and Labour even worse, DB

5:20pm Tue 10 Dec 13

kingstonpaul says...

I thought this particular thread was in connection with a mass brawl at a night club. Regrettably it's been hijacked by a bunch of to**ers arguing political points amongst themselves, for too tiresome and arcane for anyone else but themselves. Just grow up please, go and do your party point scoring somewhere else.
I thought this particular thread was in connection with a mass brawl at a night club. Regrettably it's been hijacked by a bunch of to**ers arguing political points amongst themselves, for too tiresome and arcane for anyone else but themselves. Just grow up please, go and do your party point scoring somewhere else. kingstonpaul

5:28pm Tue 10 Dec 13

DB says...

kingstonpaul wrote:
I thought this particular thread was in connection with a mass brawl at a night club. Regrettably it's been hijacked by a bunch of to**ers arguing political points amongst themselves, for too tiresome and arcane for anyone else but themselves. Just grow up please, go and do your party point scoring somewhere else.
Too true, but the one related point that does seem to come out of the argument is that we have no real chance of getting this club shut down because no one has the power to do it.

Nothing to do with party politics, just too many public organisations with their fingers in the pie.
[quote][p][bold]kingstonpaul[/bold] wrote: I thought this particular thread was in connection with a mass brawl at a night club. Regrettably it's been hijacked by a bunch of to**ers arguing political points amongst themselves, for too tiresome and arcane for anyone else but themselves. Just grow up please, go and do your party point scoring somewhere else.[/p][/quote]Too true, but the one related point that does seem to come out of the argument is that we have no real chance of getting this club shut down because no one has the power to do it. Nothing to do with party politics, just too many public organisations with their fingers in the pie. DB

5:40pm Tue 10 Dec 13

captain_shamrock says...

kingstonpaul wrote:
I thought this particular thread was in connection with a mass brawl at a night club. Regrettably it's been hijacked by a bunch of to**ers arguing political points amongst themselves, for too tiresome and arcane for anyone else but themselves. Just grow up please, go and do your party point scoring somewhere else.
Is the quiz too hard for you? I could knock up an easier one if you like.

Or can you just not stomach some of the deluded council bashing being confronted and exposed as rank hypocrisy?

I could add that if you don't want to read about the lack of Tory support for the police, you don't have to.

If you don't care about the trouble that night clubs bring to Kingston, then fair enough, that's your right. It's a free country, you could always hit your back button. The Mary Whitehouse defence if you like.

I do note, however, that you aren't exactly shy about foisting your own views onto the Kingston populace?

I entered the following google search and got a whopping 367 results.
If I find anything rivetting amogst that, I'll let you know. Thanks

http://goo.gl/HSaj6j
[quote][p][bold]kingstonpaul[/bold] wrote: I thought this particular thread was in connection with a mass brawl at a night club. Regrettably it's been hijacked by a bunch of to**ers arguing political points amongst themselves, for too tiresome and arcane for anyone else but themselves. Just grow up please, go and do your party point scoring somewhere else.[/p][/quote]Is the quiz too hard for you? I could knock up an easier one if you like. Or can you just not stomach some of the deluded council bashing being confronted and exposed as rank hypocrisy? I could add that if you don't want to read about the lack of Tory support for the police, you don't have to. If you don't care about the trouble that night clubs bring to Kingston, then fair enough, that's your right. It's a free country, you could always hit your back button. The Mary Whitehouse defence if you like. I do note, however, that you aren't exactly shy about foisting your own views onto the Kingston populace? I entered the following google search and got a whopping 367 results. If I find anything rivetting amogst that, I'll let you know. Thanks http://goo.gl/HSaj6j captain_shamrock

5:48pm Tue 10 Dec 13

captain_shamrock says...

DB wrote:
kingstonpaul wrote:
I thought this particular thread was in connection with a mass brawl at a night club. Regrettably it's been hijacked by a bunch of to**ers arguing political points amongst themselves, for too tiresome and arcane for anyone else but themselves. Just grow up please, go and do your party point scoring somewhere else.
Too true, but the one related point that does seem to come out of the argument is that we have no real chance of getting this club shut down because no one has the power to do it.

Nothing to do with party politics, just too many public organisations with their fingers in the pie.
Nope, it's the law that's the problem.

The number of public sector organisations nor their size make no difference if the Govt doesn't give them the clear unadulterated right to permanently shut down these nightclubs.
[quote][p][bold]DB[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]kingstonpaul[/bold] wrote: I thought this particular thread was in connection with a mass brawl at a night club. Regrettably it's been hijacked by a bunch of to**ers arguing political points amongst themselves, for too tiresome and arcane for anyone else but themselves. Just grow up please, go and do your party point scoring somewhere else.[/p][/quote]Too true, but the one related point that does seem to come out of the argument is that we have no real chance of getting this club shut down because no one has the power to do it. Nothing to do with party politics, just too many public organisations with their fingers in the pie.[/p][/quote]Nope, it's the law that's the problem. The number of public sector organisations nor their size make no difference if the Govt doesn't give them the clear unadulterated right to permanently shut down these nightclubs. captain_shamrock

5:55pm Tue 10 Dec 13

R Batson says...

I still do not see Captain Shamrock being open transparent and accountable re his identity like myself. Can not trust or evaluate any remarks or facts re truth by anyone using an alias. Please identify yourself and either confirm or deny if you are a Lib Dem Cllr in a way that can be verified. Until then anything you say or anyone else says who is using a false identity granting the potential to deceive the people of this borough can not be trusted in anything they say.
I still do not see Captain Shamrock being open transparent and accountable re his identity like myself. Can not trust or evaluate any remarks or facts re truth by anyone using an alias. Please identify yourself and either confirm or deny if you are a Lib Dem Cllr in a way that can be verified. Until then anything you say or anyone else says who is using a false identity granting the potential to deceive the people of this borough can not be trusted in anything they say. R Batson

6:45pm Tue 10 Dec 13

OlBaloney says...

captain_shamrock wrote:
kingstonpaul wrote:
I thought this particular thread was in connection with a mass brawl at a night club. Regrettably it's been hijacked by a bunch of to**ers arguing political points amongst themselves, for too tiresome and arcane for anyone else but themselves. Just grow up please, go and do your party point scoring somewhere else.
Is the quiz too hard for you? I could knock up an easier one if you like.

Or can you just not stomach some of the deluded council bashing being confronted and exposed as rank hypocrisy?

I could add that if you don't want to read about the lack of Tory support for the police, you don't have to.

If you don't care about the trouble that night clubs bring to Kingston, then fair enough, that's your right. It's a free country, you could always hit your back button. The Mary Whitehouse defence if you like.

I do note, however, that you aren't exactly shy about foisting your own views onto the Kingston populace?

I entered the following google search and got a whopping 367 results.
If I find anything rivetting amogst that, I'll let you know. Thanks

http://goo.gl/HSaj6j
Meanwhile, captain_smallcock is all over the Comet website and other internet pages like a nasty rash. http://bit.ly/1bvaBs
b
[quote][p][bold]captain_shamrock[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]kingstonpaul[/bold] wrote: I thought this particular thread was in connection with a mass brawl at a night club. Regrettably it's been hijacked by a bunch of to**ers arguing political points amongst themselves, for too tiresome and arcane for anyone else but themselves. Just grow up please, go and do your party point scoring somewhere else.[/p][/quote]Is the quiz too hard for you? I could knock up an easier one if you like. Or can you just not stomach some of the deluded council bashing being confronted and exposed as rank hypocrisy? I could add that if you don't want to read about the lack of Tory support for the police, you don't have to. If you don't care about the trouble that night clubs bring to Kingston, then fair enough, that's your right. It's a free country, you could always hit your back button. The Mary Whitehouse defence if you like. I do note, however, that you aren't exactly shy about foisting your own views onto the Kingston populace? I entered the following google search and got a whopping 367 results. If I find anything rivetting amogst that, I'll let you know. Thanks http://goo.gl/HSaj6j[/p][/quote]Meanwhile, captain_smallcock is all over the Comet website and other internet pages like a nasty rash. http://bit.ly/1bvaBs b OlBaloney

10:53am Wed 11 Dec 13

DB says...

captain_shamrock wrote:
DB wrote:
kingstonpaul wrote: I thought this particular thread was in connection with a mass brawl at a night club. Regrettably it's been hijacked by a bunch of to**ers arguing political points amongst themselves, for too tiresome and arcane for anyone else but themselves. Just grow up please, go and do your party point scoring somewhere else.
Too true, but the one related point that does seem to come out of the argument is that we have no real chance of getting this club shut down because no one has the power to do it. Nothing to do with party politics, just too many public organisations with their fingers in the pie.
Nope, it's the law that's the problem. The number of public sector organisations nor their size make no difference if the Govt doesn't give them the clear unadulterated right to permanently shut down these nightclubs.
You are compartmentalising everything too much.

The law is just another untlimately another part of the state is it not? Ignoring the interference that we now get from EU, the UK government should be in control of all of these systems and organisations.

We now have a situation where Kingston Council has to get into a legal dispute with the police over one aspect of something it should be managing itself, and then with TfL over another etc. These disputes are expensive and inefficient, ultimately costing the taxpayer money with the only beneficiaries being the excess number of staff at all of the organisations whose jobs are there mainly to fight with the other organisations and, of course, the lawyers.

I realise that your reason for being on here is to defend council decisions, but I am not attacking the council here or the political party that runs it, just the overall situation it is working within.

Unfortunately for the council, I doubt that most people will realise that this is the case and will hold them to account for these problems. Again, I am not trying to detract from how brilliant the council/Lib Dems are before you get back on your high horse, just saying what the majority of Kingston citizens are likely to see.
[quote][p][bold]captain_shamrock[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]DB[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]kingstonpaul[/bold] wrote: I thought this particular thread was in connection with a mass brawl at a night club. Regrettably it's been hijacked by a bunch of to**ers arguing political points amongst themselves, for too tiresome and arcane for anyone else but themselves. Just grow up please, go and do your party point scoring somewhere else.[/p][/quote]Too true, but the one related point that does seem to come out of the argument is that we have no real chance of getting this club shut down because no one has the power to do it. Nothing to do with party politics, just too many public organisations with their fingers in the pie.[/p][/quote]Nope, it's the law that's the problem. The number of public sector organisations nor their size make no difference if the Govt doesn't give them the clear unadulterated right to permanently shut down these nightclubs.[/p][/quote]You are compartmentalising everything too much. The law is just another untlimately another part of the state is it not? Ignoring the interference that we now get from EU, the UK government should be in control of all of these systems and organisations. We now have a situation where Kingston Council has to get into a legal dispute with the police over one aspect of something it should be managing itself, and then with TfL over another etc. These disputes are expensive and inefficient, ultimately costing the taxpayer money with the only beneficiaries being the excess number of staff at all of the organisations whose jobs are there mainly to fight with the other organisations and, of course, the lawyers. I realise that your reason for being on here is to defend council decisions, but I am not attacking the council here or the political party that runs it, just the overall situation it is working within. Unfortunately for the council, I doubt that most people will realise that this is the case and will hold them to account for these problems. Again, I am not trying to detract from how brilliant the council/Lib Dems are before you get back on your high horse, just saying what the majority of Kingston citizens are likely to see. DB

3:39pm Wed 11 Dec 13

kingstonpaul says...

captain_shamrock wrote:
kingstonpaul wrote:
I thought this particular thread was in connection with a mass brawl at a night club. Regrettably it's been hijacked by a bunch of to**ers arguing political points amongst themselves, for too tiresome and arcane for anyone else but themselves. Just grow up please, go and do your party point scoring somewhere else.
Is the quiz too hard for you? I could knock up an easier one if you like.

Or can you just not stomach some of the deluded council bashing being confronted and exposed as rank hypocrisy?

I could add that if you don't want to read about the lack of Tory support for the police, you don't have to.

If you don't care about the trouble that night clubs bring to Kingston, then fair enough, that's your right. It's a free country, you could always hit your back button. The Mary Whitehouse defence if you like.

I do note, however, that you aren't exactly shy about foisting your own views onto the Kingston populace?

I entered the following google search and got a whopping 367 results.
If I find anything rivetting amogst that, I'll let you know. Thanks

http://goo.gl/HSaj6j
I'm sure that buried somewhere in your splenetic rant there's a reasonable point.
I've no idea what http://goo.gl/HSaj6 is, please enlighten me.
Finally, I stand by my original point. The article is about a brawl outside a club. These things unfortunately happen, I don't think we need to drag it into a debate about local party politics.
[quote][p][bold]captain_shamrock[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]kingstonpaul[/bold] wrote: I thought this particular thread was in connection with a mass brawl at a night club. Regrettably it's been hijacked by a bunch of to**ers arguing political points amongst themselves, for too tiresome and arcane for anyone else but themselves. Just grow up please, go and do your party point scoring somewhere else.[/p][/quote]Is the quiz too hard for you? I could knock up an easier one if you like. Or can you just not stomach some of the deluded council bashing being confronted and exposed as rank hypocrisy? I could add that if you don't want to read about the lack of Tory support for the police, you don't have to. If you don't care about the trouble that night clubs bring to Kingston, then fair enough, that's your right. It's a free country, you could always hit your back button. The Mary Whitehouse defence if you like. I do note, however, that you aren't exactly shy about foisting your own views onto the Kingston populace? I entered the following google search and got a whopping 367 results. If I find anything rivetting amogst that, I'll let you know. Thanks http://goo.gl/HSaj6j[/p][/quote]I'm sure that buried somewhere in your splenetic rant there's a reasonable point. I've no idea what http://goo.gl/HSaj6 is, please enlighten me. Finally, I stand by my original point. The article is about a brawl outside a club. These things unfortunately happen, I don't think we need to drag it into a debate about local party politics. kingstonpaul

7:50pm Thu 12 Dec 13

Barry O'Mahony says...

I have been reluctant for some time to enter the fray on this website. I don't generally approve of anonymous contributors getting such free rein with often extremely negative views.
BUT, I do want to clarify for some of you; Captain Shamrock is not a Lib Dem Councillor. He may not even be a Lib Dem supporter.
How do I know? - someone did try to recruit him once but with no joy!

I can accept some people may have a valid reason for staying anonymous - perhaps he is in a sensitive job. He is clearly a parent with real experience of the school system.
It may be obvious from his posts that he is not a Tory supporter but Conservatives, in my experience, do sometimes need reminding that approaching 70% of the nations voters do NOT vote Conservative!
Does that make them all Lib Dems? we could wish - haha - but we have to accept it isn't so !!!

A number of 'contributors' to this website have wrongly assumed that I have been posting comments under a pseudonym - Why? because the moniker being used might be perceived as being Irish! If nothing else, I could resent the borderline discriminatory assumption that I would be so lacking in imagination as to use that particular moniker.
I have NOT posted on The Surrey Comet website under any name and have no intention of responding to all correspondence on any regular basis in this forum.
I repeat, I am NOT the person behind those comments.
The editor or someone at the Comet can verify this as a FACT.

When elected as a local Councillor one of the first things that happens is our name, private family address, email and phone numbers are published on the RBK Website.
Privacy becomes a thing of the past. We all receive thousands of emails, phone-calls and even the occasional resident knocking on the door unannounced. It does happen!
I participate on Facebook, Twitter and Linkedin and always clearly under my own name with photographs etc..(.Facebook is mainly for personal and social contact - please!)
I attend loads of public meeting with my name card on the table. Public speaking and questions are allowed at our meetings - introduced by Liberal Democrats.
Come along and have your say in public. Lots of people do.
In other words,Councillors have nowhere to hide and of course I accept this is as it should be for publicly elected representatives.
If you wish to engage in proper debate, there are many more transparent ways to do it. Barry.OMahony@counci
llors.kingston.gov.u
k
I have been reluctant for some time to enter the fray on this website. I don't generally approve of anonymous contributors getting such free rein with often extremely negative views. BUT, I do want to clarify for some of you; Captain Shamrock is not a Lib Dem Councillor. He may not even be a Lib Dem supporter. How do I know? - someone did try to recruit him once but with no joy! I can accept some people may have a valid reason for staying anonymous - perhaps he is in a sensitive job. He is clearly a parent with real experience of the school system. It may be obvious from his posts that he is not a Tory supporter but Conservatives, in my experience, do sometimes need reminding that approaching 70% of the nations voters do NOT vote Conservative! Does that make them all Lib Dems? we could wish - haha - but we have to accept it isn't so !!! A number of 'contributors' to this website have wrongly assumed that I have been posting comments under a pseudonym - Why? because the moniker being used might be perceived as being Irish! If nothing else, I could resent the borderline discriminatory assumption that I would be so lacking in imagination as to use that particular moniker. I have NOT posted on The Surrey Comet website under any name and have no intention of responding to all correspondence on any regular basis in this forum. I repeat, I am NOT the person behind those comments. The editor or someone at the Comet can verify this as a FACT. When elected as a local Councillor one of the first things that happens is our name, private family address, email and phone numbers are published on the RBK Website. Privacy becomes a thing of the past. We all receive thousands of emails, phone-calls and even the occasional resident knocking on the door unannounced. It does happen! I participate on Facebook, Twitter and Linkedin and always clearly under my own name with photographs etc..(.Facebook is mainly for personal and social contact - please!) I attend loads of public meeting with my name card on the table. Public speaking and questions are allowed at our meetings - introduced by Liberal Democrats. Come along and have your say in public. Lots of people do. In other words,Councillors have nowhere to hide and of course I accept this is as it should be for publicly elected representatives. If you wish to engage in proper debate, there are many more transparent ways to do it. Barry.OMahony@counci llors.kingston.gov.u k Barry O'Mahony

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