Secret Curmudgeon: Let common sense prevail on cycling with headphones

Surrey Comet: Secret Curmudgeon: Let common sense prevail on cycling with headphones Secret Curmudgeon: Let common sense prevail on cycling with headphones

So London’s Mayor Boris Johnson has said he is “very alarmed about cyclists wearing headphones” and he would not be against a prohibition or ban on cyclists wearing them.

And our own poll on the Surrey Comet’s website showed 70 per cent of those who took part were in favour of a ban.

It would be interesting to get some figures on how many cyclists involved in accidents were actually wearing headphones at the time. Just to see how much of a safety problem it is.

But – even though it is important to look at the facts – common sense tells us it’s safer to cycle while being able to hear a car approaching from behind, or the side.

I remember a similar debate on cycling helmets. People were writing to the Times newspaper stating that, statistically, helmets were not effective in the reduction of injuries.

And then one correspondent cut through all the crap with one simple letter.

It was along the lines of: “To all those claiming cycling helmets are ineffective, I have a challenge for them.

"We can meet up and I’ll hit them round the head with a plank of wood. And, before I do it, they can choose to wear a helmet – or not.”

That says it all really. Let common sense prevail.

Whether legislation is the answer, well, our poll shows that most people support a ban, despite the “nanny state” accusations that will, no doubt, be thrown the way of the legislators.

My own personal view? Yep, ban ’em! And, while we’re at it, ban them on buses and trains as well.

Or at the very least introduce a law that says if anyone else can hear your music they get to keep your iPod. Now that would be popular.

Comments (17)

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9:50am Sun 8 Dec 13

Baron Digger says...

Full headphones on cycles should be banned as well as wearing then in cars.
Drivers are not aware of their surroundings, but saying that a deaf driver has the same issue.
Full headphones on cycles should be banned as well as wearing then in cars. Drivers are not aware of their surroundings, but saying that a deaf driver has the same issue. Baron Digger

9:55am Sun 8 Dec 13

321200 says...

Pardon?
Pardon? 321200

9:56am Sun 8 Dec 13

Baron Digger says...

While we are banning stuff, how about the very bright headlights on cycles which are on full beam and flash in the eyes of oncoming drivers blinding then! We get warnings on TV regarding flashing lights under health and safety but there is nothing to stop some one shining a white flashing light in your face, irrespective of the possible danger.
While we are banning stuff, how about the very bright headlights on cycles which are on full beam and flash in the eyes of oncoming drivers blinding then! We get warnings on TV regarding flashing lights under health and safety but there is nothing to stop some one shining a white flashing light in your face, irrespective of the possible danger. Baron Digger

6:38pm Sun 8 Dec 13

Ricademus says...

I thought it was against the law anyway, it's in the highway code.
I thought it was against the law anyway, it's in the highway code. Ricademus

6:43pm Sun 8 Dec 13

Ricademus says...

Baron Digger wrote:
While we are banning stuff, how about the very bright headlights on cycles which are on full beam and flash in the eyes of oncoming drivers blinding then! We get warnings on TV regarding flashing lights under health and safety but there is nothing to stop some one shining a white flashing light in your face, irrespective of the possible danger.
What about the idiots that drive around with fog/spot lights on that is against the law. Fog and spot lights are exactly the same, you are not allowed to have them on unless it's foggy and/or the visibility is below 100m.
[quote][p][bold]Baron Digger[/bold] wrote: While we are banning stuff, how about the very bright headlights on cycles which are on full beam and flash in the eyes of oncoming drivers blinding then! We get warnings on TV regarding flashing lights under health and safety but there is nothing to stop some one shining a white flashing light in your face, irrespective of the possible danger.[/p][/quote]What about the idiots that drive around with fog/spot lights on that is against the law. Fog and spot lights are exactly the same, you are not allowed to have them on unless it's foggy and/or the visibility is below 100m. Ricademus

11:05am Mon 9 Dec 13

Paul_M says...

There is in fact data on the contribution of headphone wearing to cyclists’ casualties, at least there is in London, from TfL and the Metropolitan Police.

Their conclusion? There has not been a single recorded case in which wearing headphones has contributed to an accident involving injury to a cyclist. That does not of course mean that such a factor is not possible – but the weight of evidence suggests that it is not significant enough to merit action.

The old helmet chestnuts keep coming up over and over again. Your writer says “Let Common Sense prevail”. Common sense in the example he describes is that if anyone hits someone over the head with a piece of wood, he goes to jail for assault. You might just as well say people should wear a bullet-proof vest, after all if we were to meet etc and I shot you, the vest would protect you.

The benefits of wearing a cycle helmet are not straightforward. Their design limitations mean that they only really provide protection for simple falls at low speeds – they are mainly useful for off-road riding where no-one else is involved and paths can be rocky or slippery. Once you add fast-moving motor vehicles to the mix, the benefits are at best debatable.
There is in fact data on the contribution of headphone wearing to cyclists’ casualties, at least there is in London, from TfL and the Metropolitan Police. Their conclusion? There has not been a single recorded case in which wearing headphones has contributed to an accident involving injury to a cyclist. That does not of course mean that such a factor is not possible – but the weight of evidence suggests that it is not significant enough to merit action. The old helmet chestnuts keep coming up over and over again. Your writer says “Let Common Sense prevail”. Common sense in the example he describes is that if anyone hits someone over the head with a piece of wood, he goes to jail for assault. You might just as well say people should wear a bullet-proof vest, after all if we were to meet etc and I shot you, the vest would protect you. The benefits of wearing a cycle helmet are not straightforward. Their design limitations mean that they only really provide protection for simple falls at low speeds – they are mainly useful for off-road riding where no-one else is involved and paths can be rocky or slippery. Once you add fast-moving motor vehicles to the mix, the benefits are at best debatable. Paul_M

3:39pm Mon 9 Dec 13

Mind the gap says...

Surrey Comet seems to be like a sheep following the herd with all its recent cycle related articles, most probably to increase revenue from advertisers. By the way, the journalism in the article above is pretty poor, if you think the example of hitting someone over the head with a piece of wood would "cut through the crap" to put to bed the helmet debate, then you obviously need to think again.

Also, as a journalist, it should be relatively simple to get some statistics on how many cyclists have been injured while wearing headphones.
Surrey Comet seems to be like a sheep following the herd with all its recent cycle related articles, most probably to increase revenue from advertisers. By the way, the journalism in the article above is pretty poor, if you think the example of hitting someone over the head with a piece of wood would "cut through the crap" to put to bed the helmet debate, then you obviously need to think again. Also, as a journalist, it should be relatively simple to get some statistics on how many cyclists have been injured while wearing headphones. Mind the gap

6:03pm Mon 9 Dec 13

ScaredAmoeba says...

then one correspondent cut through all the crap with one simple letter.

It was along the lines of: “To all those claiming cycling helmets are ineffective, I have a challenge for them.

"We can meet up and I’ll hit them round the head with a plank of wood. And, before I do it, they can choose to wear a helmet – or not.”

That says it all really. Let common sense prevail.

If that codswallop passes for common sense, as a species, we are all doomed.

What does deliberately striking a person on the head has to do with cyclists, whether they wear helmets or not?
Even a half-wit would or should be able to recognise that even a small motor-vehicle* has a much larger mass than any plank, and is likely to be travelling vastly in excess of any plank capable of being wielded by even the strongest human being. Almost needless to say an average motor-car is much more massive and capable of greater speeds. Goods vehicles, much more so.
Cycle helmets are neither designed, nor capable of protecting the wearer from motor-vehicle impact.
That so-called 'common sense' is looking somewhat less than an intelligent comment now, isn't it?

* A small electric car weighs 665 kg, and can travel at 50 mph.
[quote] then one correspondent cut through all the crap with one simple letter. It was along the lines of: “To all those claiming cycling helmets are ineffective, I have a challenge for them. "We can meet up and I’ll hit them round the head with a plank of wood. And, before I do it, they can choose to wear a helmet – or not.” That says it all really. Let common sense prevail. [end quote] If that codswallop passes for common sense, as a species, we are all doomed. What does deliberately striking a person on the head has to do with cyclists, whether they wear helmets or not? Even a half-wit would or should be able to recognise that even a small motor-vehicle* has a much larger mass than any plank, and is likely to be travelling vastly in excess of any plank capable of being wielded by even the strongest human being. Almost needless to say an average motor-car is much more massive and capable of greater speeds. Goods vehicles, much more so. Cycle helmets are neither designed, nor capable of protecting the wearer from motor-vehicle impact. That so-called 'common sense' is looking somewhat less than an intelligent comment now, isn't it? * A small electric car weighs 665 kg, and can travel at 50 mph. ScaredAmoeba

11:05pm Tue 10 Dec 13

Baron Digger says...

Are cyclists allowed to ride no hands? Ride two or three abreast? Read text messages? Blind other road users with their head lights? Swear at other road users? Leave their cycle lying on the pavement outside shops? Go through red lights? Go weaving in and out of the slow moving traffic? Stop directly I front of you at road junctions and get in the way when riding in the traffic? Hold up traffic and cause a long line of traffic as they ride in the middle of the road! Stop ambulances getting through due to their road positioning as they carry on riding and not pulling over! .....good for you cyclists easy as you go!
Are cyclists allowed to ride no hands? Ride two or three abreast? Read text messages? Blind other road users with their head lights? Swear at other road users? Leave their cycle lying on the pavement outside shops? Go through red lights? Go weaving in and out of the slow moving traffic? Stop directly I front of you at road junctions and get in the way when riding in the traffic? Hold up traffic and cause a long line of traffic as they ride in the middle of the road! Stop ambulances getting through due to their road positioning as they carry on riding and not pulling over! .....good for you cyclists easy as you go! Baron Digger

2:59am Wed 11 Dec 13

thelastusernameinthebox says...

Yes, cyclists are allowed to ride two abreast in any lane. Check your highway code.Cycles filtering in slow moving or stopped traffic is subject to similar rules as for motorcycles, which you don't seem to be agitated about. As for motorbikes, filtering can be dangerous if done wrong (weaving about as you put it, failing to understand pinch points, blindspots, escape routes, etc). Much the same is true of cars overtaking. There are rules in the highway code on cars overtaking other cars and overtaking bikes, and there are lots of rules on filtering in government approved bike training schemes and reposted on campaign/club websites. Obviously not every cyclist is personally responsible for all the other cyclists, any more than than I am, as a driver, responsible for all other driver's behaviour. But I imagine that the danger and incomplete training involved in poor filtering technique doesn't exactly describe your problem with it. You were sitting in a stationary car when you witnessed a number or people getting where they were trying to go?
Yes, cyclists are allowed to ride two abreast in any lane. Check your highway code.Cycles filtering in slow moving or stopped traffic is subject to similar rules as for motorcycles, which you don't seem to be agitated about. As for motorbikes, filtering can be dangerous if done wrong (weaving about as you put it, failing to understand pinch points, blindspots, escape routes, etc). Much the same is true of cars overtaking. There are rules in the highway code on cars overtaking other cars and overtaking bikes, and there are lots of rules on filtering in government approved bike training schemes and reposted on campaign/club websites. Obviously not every cyclist is personally responsible for all the other cyclists, any more than than I am, as a driver, responsible for all other driver's behaviour. But I imagine that the danger and incomplete training involved in poor filtering technique doesn't exactly describe your problem with it. You were sitting in a stationary car when you witnessed a number or people getting where they were trying to go? thelastusernameinthebox

3:20am Wed 11 Dec 13

thelastusernameinthebox says...

My apologies - that should have read that cyclists are allowed to ride two abreast in roads of suitable width, where doing so would not hold up traffic. On the other hand, what you may experience as 'holding up traffic' is lane assertion that the regulations encourage cyclists to do in a variety of circumstances: for sufficient distance from parked cars to avoid 'dooring', to prevent dangerous overtaking at pinch points, to obtain access to appropriate lane at junctions, not to be spilled into the road by potholes, etc. Probably if you were Bikeability trained, you would be in a very good position to offer corrective advice to ignorant two wheeled miscreants.
My apologies - that should have read that cyclists are allowed to ride two abreast in roads of suitable width, where doing so would not hold up traffic. On the other hand, what you may experience as 'holding up traffic' is lane assertion that the regulations encourage cyclists to do in a variety of circumstances: for sufficient distance from parked cars to avoid 'dooring', to prevent dangerous overtaking at pinch points, to obtain access to appropriate lane at junctions, not to be spilled into the road by potholes, etc. Probably if you were Bikeability trained, you would be in a very good position to offer corrective advice to ignorant two wheeled miscreants. thelastusernameinthebox

6:28am Wed 11 Dec 13

ScaredAmoeba says...

Baron Digger wrote:
Are cyclists allowed to ride no hands? Ride two or three abreast? Read text messages? Blind other road users with their head lights? Swear at other road users? Leave their cycle lying on the pavement outside shops? Go through red lights? Go weaving in and out of the slow moving traffic? Stop directly I front of you at road junctions and get in the way when riding in the traffic? Hold up traffic and cause a long line of traffic as they ride in the middle of the road! Stop ambulances getting through due to their road positioning as they carry on riding and not pulling over! .....good for you cyclists easy as you go!
Leaving aside the utterly false and dishonest implication that all cyclists do these things, which of course is both untrue and what cycle-hating bigots always imply. As a cyclist, pedestrian and a motorist, I want all road users to obey the Law. It is however motorists who are responsible for killing and injuring the lion's-share of the road victims. Cyclists are mere bit players, measured whether in absolute or pro-rata terms.
Most people fail to grasp that legislation applying to drivers of motorised vehicles, often does not apply to other road users, for instance pedal cyclists. (examples: speed-limits, mobile phone use)

Motorists by virtue of their selfish occupation of the road (when one is in congestion, what type of vehicle comprises ~95% of the congestion? It will almost certainly be cars, with a typical occupancy of IIRC 1.2 persons per vehicle. I truly doubt ambulances are held-up by cyclists, it seems much more probable that it is motorists.

As for cyclists leaving their bikes outside shops, what about motorists who do the very same thing, illegally driving on the footway in the process?! - The sign of a true bigot is the one-eyed, hypocritical thinking that accompanies it. Country-wide, footways (pavements) are being driven-on, pedestrians are being killed by pavement drivers. For every pedestrian tragically killed by a pavement cyclist, around 150 pedestrians are killed by a pavement driver (DfT figures 2005-2009). Those cracked paving slabs are being damaged by driving on the pavement.

Bad behaviour is largely the consequence of the individual, not the vehicle being used. Although there are exceptions. For instance speeding, ignoring the fact that speed limits rarely apply to pedal cyclists, it's a matter of propulsive power, an average cyclist can muster ~100 Watts, whereas a motorist can typically muster 50,000 W through 150,000 W, up to ~750,000 W. Can an objective intelligent person see the difference?

For instance, it is a common but dishonest meme that cyclists are particularly lawless, which implies, also dishonestly that motorists as a group are law-abiding paragons of virtue, the reality is they are not.

Red Light Jumping
Research carried-out on behalf of Direct Line revealed that “22nd August 2011
5.2 million drivers have passed through a red traffic signal in the last month
Amber gamblers: Almost one in ten drivers doesn’t slow down for amber lights
New research from Direct Line car insurance reveals that motorists are driving through 12 million red lights each month on British roads – the equivalent of running 278 red lights every minute *.
Over 5.2 million (14 per cent) motorists admit that they drive through an average of two red traffic lights each month. Over 760,000 (two per cent) motorists habitually drive through red lights if they feel the road is clear and there is no traffic.
As a result of their reckless behaviour at red lights, drivers risk clocking up over 36 million penalty points (three for each offence) and fines from fixed penalty notices totalling £721** million every month....”

Mobile phone use while driving - 2012
“One million motorists have been caught illegally using a handheld mobile phone while driving since legislation was introduced in 2003, according to new figures.
One in three motorists admits still using a handset behind the wheel, while 18 per cent say they believe it is acceptable to do so despite the law.....”

And your point was – ¡ʇsǝuoɥsıp ʎןdǝǝp
[quote][p][bold]Baron Digger[/bold] wrote: Are cyclists allowed to ride no hands? Ride two or three abreast? Read text messages? Blind other road users with their head lights? Swear at other road users? Leave their cycle lying on the pavement outside shops? Go through red lights? Go weaving in and out of the slow moving traffic? Stop directly I front of you at road junctions and get in the way when riding in the traffic? Hold up traffic and cause a long line of traffic as they ride in the middle of the road! Stop ambulances getting through due to their road positioning as they carry on riding and not pulling over! .....good for you cyclists easy as you go![/p][/quote]Leaving aside the utterly false and dishonest implication that all cyclists do these things, which of course is both untrue and what cycle-hating bigots always imply. As a cyclist, pedestrian and a motorist, I want all road users to obey the Law. It is however motorists who are responsible for killing and injuring the lion's-share of the road victims. Cyclists are mere bit players, measured whether in absolute or pro-rata terms. Most people fail to grasp that legislation applying to drivers of motorised vehicles, often does not apply to other road users, for instance pedal cyclists. (examples: speed-limits, mobile phone use) Motorists by virtue of their selfish occupation of the road (when one is in congestion, what type of vehicle comprises ~95% of the congestion? It will almost certainly be cars, with a typical occupancy of IIRC 1.2 persons per vehicle. I truly doubt ambulances are held-up by cyclists, it seems much more probable that it is motorists. As for cyclists leaving their bikes outside shops, what about motorists who do the very same thing, illegally driving on the footway in the process?! - The sign of a true bigot is the one-eyed, hypocritical thinking that accompanies it. Country-wide, footways (pavements) are being driven-on, pedestrians are being killed by pavement drivers. For every pedestrian tragically killed by a pavement cyclist, around 150 pedestrians are killed by a pavement driver (DfT figures 2005-2009). Those cracked paving slabs are being damaged by driving on the pavement. Bad behaviour is largely the consequence of the individual, not the vehicle being used. Although there are exceptions. For instance speeding, ignoring the fact that speed limits rarely apply to pedal cyclists, it's a matter of propulsive power, an average cyclist can muster ~100 Watts, whereas a motorist can typically muster 50,000 W through 150,000 W, up to ~750,000 W. Can an objective intelligent person see the difference? For instance, it is a common but dishonest meme that cyclists are particularly lawless, which implies, also dishonestly that motorists as a group are law-abiding paragons of virtue, the reality is they are not. Red Light Jumping Research carried-out on behalf of Direct Line revealed that “22nd August 2011 5.2 million drivers have passed through a red traffic signal in the last month Amber gamblers: Almost one in ten drivers doesn’t slow down for amber lights New research from Direct Line car insurance reveals that motorists are driving through 12 million red lights each month on British roads – the equivalent of running 278 red lights every minute *. Over 5.2 million (14 per cent) motorists admit that they drive through an average of two red traffic lights each month. Over 760,000 (two per cent) motorists habitually drive through red lights if they feel the road is clear and there is no traffic. As a result of their reckless behaviour at red lights, drivers risk clocking up over 36 million penalty points (three for each offence) and fines from fixed penalty notices totalling £721** million every month....” Mobile phone use while driving - 2012 “One million motorists have been caught illegally using a handheld mobile phone while driving since legislation was introduced in 2003, according to new figures. One in three motorists admits still using a handset behind the wheel, while 18 per cent say they believe it is acceptable to do so despite the law.....” And your point was – ¡ʇsǝuoɥsıp ʎןdǝǝp ScaredAmoeba

6:36am Wed 11 Dec 13

Baron Digger says...

Are cyclists allowed to ride no hands? Ride two or three abreast? Read text messages? Blind other road users with their head lights? Swear at other road users? Leave their cycle lying on the pavement outside shops? Go through red lights? Go weaving in and out of the slow moving traffic? Stop directly I front of you at road junctions and get in the way when riding in the traffic? Hold up traffic and cause a long line of traffic as they ride in the middle of the road! Stop ambulances getting through due to their road positioning as they carry on riding and not pulling over! .....good for you cyclists easy as you go! Finally, they over take other cyclists so fast and silently and close without looking ! I have been on the receiving end of that and it's as scary as a car as they make you jump by the sudden speed and just of wind.

Oh by the way, I own a cycle and enjoy riding and find it a good form of transport, I ride with as much care as possible and consideration for all and safe guard myself as much as possible.
Are cyclists allowed to ride no hands? Ride two or three abreast? Read text messages? Blind other road users with their head lights? Swear at other road users? Leave their cycle lying on the pavement outside shops? Go through red lights? Go weaving in and out of the slow moving traffic? Stop directly I front of you at road junctions and get in the way when riding in the traffic? Hold up traffic and cause a long line of traffic as they ride in the middle of the road! Stop ambulances getting through due to their road positioning as they carry on riding and not pulling over! .....good for you cyclists easy as you go! Finally, they over take other cyclists so fast and silently and close without looking ! I have been on the receiving end of that and it's as scary as a car as they make you jump by the sudden speed and just of wind. Oh by the way, I own a cycle and enjoy riding and find it a good form of transport, I ride with as much care as possible and consideration for all and safe guard myself as much as possible. Baron Digger

6:38am Wed 11 Dec 13

Baron Digger says...

Are cyclists allowed to ride no hands? Ride two or three abreast? Read text messages? Blind other road users with their head lights? Swear at other road users? Leave their cycle lying on the pavement outside shops? Go through red lights? Go weaving in and out of the slow moving traffic? Stop directly I front of you at road junctions and get in the way when riding in the traffic? Hold up traffic and cause a long line of traffic as they ride in the middle of the road! Stop ambulances getting through due to their road positioning as they carry on riding and not pulling over! .....good for you cyclists easy as you go! Finally, they over take other cyclists so fast and silently and close without looking ! I have been on the receiving end of that and it's as scary as a car as they make you jump by the sudden speed and gust of wind.

Oh by the way, I own a cycle and enjoy riding and find it a good form of transport, I ride with as much care as possible and consideration for all and safe guard myself as much as possible.
Are cyclists allowed to ride no hands? Ride two or three abreast? Read text messages? Blind other road users with their head lights? Swear at other road users? Leave their cycle lying on the pavement outside shops? Go through red lights? Go weaving in and out of the slow moving traffic? Stop directly I front of you at road junctions and get in the way when riding in the traffic? Hold up traffic and cause a long line of traffic as they ride in the middle of the road! Stop ambulances getting through due to their road positioning as they carry on riding and not pulling over! .....good for you cyclists easy as you go! Finally, they over take other cyclists so fast and silently and close without looking ! I have been on the receiving end of that and it's as scary as a car as they make you jump by the sudden speed and gust of wind. Oh by the way, I own a cycle and enjoy riding and find it a good form of transport, I ride with as much care as possible and consideration for all and safe guard myself as much as possible. Baron Digger

6:55am Wed 11 Dec 13

ScaredAmoeba says...

Baron Digger wrote:
Are cyclists allowed to ride no hands? Ride two or three abreast? Read text messages? Blind other road users with their head lights? Swear at other road users? Leave their cycle lying on the pavement outside shops? Go through red lights? Go weaving in and out of the slow moving traffic? Stop directly I front of you at road junctions and get in the way when riding in the traffic? Hold up traffic and cause a long line of traffic as they ride in the middle of the road! Stop ambulances getting through due to their road positioning as they carry on riding and not pulling over! .....good for you cyclists easy as you go! Finally, they over take other cyclists so fast and silently and close without looking ! I have been on the receiving end of that and it's as scary as a car as they make you jump by the sudden speed and gust of wind.

Oh by the way, I own a cycle and enjoy riding and find it a good form of transport, I ride with as much care as possible and consideration for all and safe guard myself as much as possible.
I find it impossible to believe your claim. If I were a betting person, I would say you are a motorist pretending to be a cyclist in order to provide a feeble smokescreen to justify your comment, I have encountered such behaviour previously.
Yes, of course there are bad cyclists, but there are far more bad motorists.
Many drivers are incompetent and I often find myself being tailed (followed dangerously close behind), whether I am driving at the speed-limit or cycling.

As an example,
Last night, while driving a relatively short journey, I encountered six vehicles, three with defective lights, and three using foglights after lighting-up time.

One day of fog, followed by six weeks of drivers with foglights at night.
[quote][p][bold]Baron Digger[/bold] wrote: Are cyclists allowed to ride no hands? Ride two or three abreast? Read text messages? Blind other road users with their head lights? Swear at other road users? Leave their cycle lying on the pavement outside shops? Go through red lights? Go weaving in and out of the slow moving traffic? Stop directly I front of you at road junctions and get in the way when riding in the traffic? Hold up traffic and cause a long line of traffic as they ride in the middle of the road! Stop ambulances getting through due to their road positioning as they carry on riding and not pulling over! .....good for you cyclists easy as you go! Finally, they over take other cyclists so fast and silently and close without looking ! I have been on the receiving end of that and it's as scary as a car as they make you jump by the sudden speed and gust of wind. Oh by the way, I own a cycle and enjoy riding and find it a good form of transport, I ride with as much care as possible and consideration for all and safe guard myself as much as possible.[/p][/quote]I find it impossible to believe your claim. If I were a betting person, I would say you are a motorist pretending to be a cyclist in order to provide a feeble smokescreen to justify your comment, I have encountered such behaviour previously. Yes, of course there are bad cyclists, but there are far more bad motorists. Many drivers are incompetent and I often find myself being tailed (followed dangerously close behind), whether I am driving at the speed-limit or cycling. As an example, Last night, while driving a relatively short journey, I encountered six vehicles, three with defective lights, and three using foglights after lighting-up time. One day of fog, followed by six weeks of drivers with foglights at night. ScaredAmoeba

8:39pm Wed 11 Dec 13

thelastusernameinthebox says...

Baron Digger wrote:
Are cyclists allowed to ride no hands? Ride two or three abreast? Read text messages? Blind other road users with their head lights? Swear at other road users? Leave their cycle lying on the pavement outside shops? Go through red lights? Go weaving in and out of the slow moving traffic? Stop directly I front of you at road junctions and get in the way when riding in the traffic? Hold up traffic and cause a long line of traffic as they ride in the middle of the road! Stop ambulances getting through due to their road positioning as they carry on riding and not pulling over! .....good for you cyclists easy as you go! Finally, they over take other cyclists so fast and silently and close without looking ! I have been on the receiving end of that and it's as scary as a car as they make you jump by the sudden speed and just of wind.

Oh by the way, I own a cycle and enjoy riding and find it a good form of transport, I ride with as much care as possible and consideration for all and safe guard myself as much as possible.
Is there a reason why this chap keeps reposting the same remarks without engaging anyone who knows what they are talking about?
[quote][p][bold]Baron Digger[/bold] wrote: Are cyclists allowed to ride no hands? Ride two or three abreast? Read text messages? Blind other road users with their head lights? Swear at other road users? Leave their cycle lying on the pavement outside shops? Go through red lights? Go weaving in and out of the slow moving traffic? Stop directly I front of you at road junctions and get in the way when riding in the traffic? Hold up traffic and cause a long line of traffic as they ride in the middle of the road! Stop ambulances getting through due to their road positioning as they carry on riding and not pulling over! .....good for you cyclists easy as you go! Finally, they over take other cyclists so fast and silently and close without looking ! I have been on the receiving end of that and it's as scary as a car as they make you jump by the sudden speed and just of wind. Oh by the way, I own a cycle and enjoy riding and find it a good form of transport, I ride with as much care as possible and consideration for all and safe guard myself as much as possible.[/p][/quote]Is there a reason why this chap keeps reposting the same remarks without engaging anyone who knows what they are talking about? thelastusernameinthebox

11:50am Fri 13 Dec 13

Richard of Wantage says...

I ride about 10,000 miles each year and meet many other cyclists on my rides, but I have never meet any wearing headphones. Therefore if we are suggesting there should be a ban on cyclists wearing headphones can I also add the following; whilst cycling you shouldn't be cutting the lawn, flying an aeroplane, being blindfolded, wearing a bucket over ones head; performing lifesaving surgery etc.
I ride about 10,000 miles each year and meet many other cyclists on my rides, but I have never meet any wearing headphones. Therefore if we are suggesting there should be a ban on cyclists wearing headphones can I also add the following; whilst cycling you shouldn't be cutting the lawn, flying an aeroplane, being blindfolded, wearing a bucket over ones head; performing lifesaving surgery etc. Richard of Wantage

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