Drivers 'using Tolworth Greenway as a short cut'

Surrey Comet: Tyre tracks: This photo, taken by Steve Bassett, shows marks across the Greenway last week. Tyre tracks: This photo, taken by Steve Bassett, shows marks across the Greenway last week.

Vehicles have been crossing the new Greenway in Tolworth Broadway in order to save journey time, according to witnesses.

The Greenway was designed to be shared by pedestrians and cyclists, but tyre marks have appeared on it and shop workers tell of drivers using the path as a short cut.

A worker at the EnhanceAble charity shop next to the petrol station said: "Cars have been seen to go on the central bit, turn around, and go the other way.

"I think it’s just people get so impatient."

Caretaker Steve Bassett, from Surbiton, said: “Something needs to be done about it.

"I just see the fresh tyre tracks pretty much on a daily basis.

"They're going to get used to doing it."

Tolworth and Hook Rise councillor Vicki Harris said: "Take a photo. Get a registration plate – that’s what we need.

"Obviously it is an issue. There’s plans, and always has been, for a major review of the scheme in the new year.

"All these sorts of things that are being brought up at the moment clearly will be looked at."

Have you seen a car driving over the Greenway? Call the newsdesk on 020 8744 4273 or email jon.sharman@london.newsquest.co.uk.

 

TODAY'S HEADLINES IN KINGSTON UPON THAMES

Comments (12)

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2:53pm Mon 9 Dec 13

chriswp says...

Is there signage that's says you can't do a u turn or cross this area.
I haven't been along there since the revamp. Any ideas?
Is there signage that's says you can't do a u turn or cross this area. I haven't been along there since the revamp. Any ideas? chriswp

3:08pm Mon 9 Dec 13

Tony from Surbiton says...

What did they think would happen? I know of a radical new solution - put some barriers up!!!!

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
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HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
HAHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
AAAAAAAAAAAARRRRRRRR
RRRRRRGGGGGGGGGGGGGG
GHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH.
.......
What did they think would happen? I know of a radical new solution - put some barriers up!!!! HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAARRRRRRRR RRRRRRGGGGGGGGGGGGGG GHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH. ....... Tony from Surbiton

3:18pm Mon 9 Dec 13

Mind the gap says...

Drivers unable to obey simple traffic laws, who would have thought it. As Tony says, barriers should do the trick.
Drivers unable to obey simple traffic laws, who would have thought it. As Tony says, barriers should do the trick. Mind the gap

3:35pm Mon 9 Dec 13

surboSam says...

Is anyone surprised? Kingston Council has wasted £3million of tax money on this monstrosity, and just like New Malden high street is a complete failure!

I presume at the next council meeting they will be discussing how building a theatre on the Broadway will solve this problem! Hahaha

Honestly most people are past the point of anger with this council and how they spend our money, that all we can do is laugh.
Is anyone surprised? Kingston Council has wasted £3million of tax money on this monstrosity, and just like New Malden high street is a complete failure! I presume at the next council meeting they will be discussing how building a theatre on the Broadway will solve this problem! Hahaha Honestly most people are past the point of anger with this council and how they spend our money, that all we can do is laugh. surboSam

5:02pm Mon 9 Dec 13

captain_shamrock says...

surboSam wrote:
Is anyone surprised? Kingston Council has wasted £3million of tax money on this monstrosity, and just like New Malden high street is a complete failure!

I presume at the next council meeting they will be discussing how building a theatre on the Broadway will solve this problem! Hahaha

Honestly most people are past the point of anger with this council and how they spend our money, that all we can do is laugh.
Total lies there surboSam

The vast majority of the money came from Boris and TfL.

Fact.

.
[quote][p][bold]surboSam[/bold] wrote: Is anyone surprised? Kingston Council has wasted £3million of tax money on this monstrosity, and just like New Malden high street is a complete failure! I presume at the next council meeting they will be discussing how building a theatre on the Broadway will solve this problem! Hahaha Honestly most people are past the point of anger with this council and how they spend our money, that all we can do is laugh.[/p][/quote]Total lies there surboSam The vast majority of the money came from Boris and TfL. Fact. . captain_shamrock

5:22pm Mon 9 Dec 13

SteveC1964 says...

"The vast majority of the money came from Boris and TfL."

Where did Boris and TfL get the money from capatin_shamrock? Did they find some gold doubloons buried under the railings? No, they got it from our taxes.
"The vast majority of the money came from Boris and TfL." Where did Boris and TfL get the money from capatin_shamrock? Did they find some gold doubloons buried under the railings? No, they got it from our taxes. SteveC1964

5:30pm Mon 9 Dec 13

peterf17 says...

Captain_Shamrock (or Rafa Beneitez?) - you're absolutely right that TFL contributed £2M, but RBK contributed over £1M of council tax funds and was responsible for the design and implementation of this scheme. RBK is ultimately accountable for this dangerous and pointless eyesore.

It's interesting to read Councillor Harris' comment that the scheme will be the subject of a major review in the new year. I've had correspondence with various councillors and RBK on this subject over the last year and its the first time that anyone has mentioned that a review would take place. My hope would be that such a review might result in the council addressing the various safety and aesthetic issues that have already been raised by many concerned residents, businesses and visitors, but based on experience I'm not optimistic and our views will probably be ignored (again).
Captain_Shamrock (or Rafa Beneitez?) - you're absolutely right that TFL contributed £2M, but RBK contributed over £1M of council tax funds and was responsible for the design and implementation of this scheme. RBK is ultimately accountable for this dangerous and pointless eyesore. It's interesting to read Councillor Harris' comment that the scheme will be the subject of a major review in the new year. I've had correspondence with various councillors and RBK on this subject over the last year and its the first time that anyone has mentioned that a review would take place. My hope would be that such a review might result in the council addressing the various safety and aesthetic issues that have already been raised by many concerned residents, businesses and visitors, but based on experience I'm not optimistic and our views will probably be ignored (again). peterf17

5:35pm Mon 9 Dec 13

surboSam says...

captain_shamrock wrote:
surboSam wrote:
Is anyone surprised? Kingston Council has wasted £3million of tax money on this monstrosity, and just like New Malden high street is a complete failure!

I presume at the next council meeting they will be discussing how building a theatre on the Broadway will solve this problem! Hahaha

Honestly most people are past the point of anger with this council and how they spend our money, that all we can do is laugh.
Total lies there surboSam

The vast majority of the money came from Boris and TfL.

Fact.

.
Really, and where does their money come from? Regardless of what department, body, etc gave the money up there was no private investment, meaning ALL the money they wasted came from the tax payers.
[quote][p][bold]captain_shamrock[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]surboSam[/bold] wrote: Is anyone surprised? Kingston Council has wasted £3million of tax money on this monstrosity, and just like New Malden high street is a complete failure! I presume at the next council meeting they will be discussing how building a theatre on the Broadway will solve this problem! Hahaha Honestly most people are past the point of anger with this council and how they spend our money, that all we can do is laugh.[/p][/quote]Total lies there surboSam The vast majority of the money came from Boris and TfL. Fact. .[/p][/quote]Really, and where does their money come from? Regardless of what department, body, etc gave the money up there was no private investment, meaning ALL the money they wasted came from the tax payers. surboSam

6:38pm Mon 9 Dec 13

captain_shamrock says...

SteveC1964 wrote:
"The vast majority of the money came from Boris and TfL."

Where did Boris and TfL get the money from capatin_shamrock? Did they find some gold doubloons buried under the railings? No, they got it from our taxes.
And if it wasn't going to Tolworth, it would have gone somewhere else. That's the way the London Mayoral budget gets dished out. To get the money for your area, you have to go along with the wishes and demands of the person giving it out. And if you don't, then it goes to another area. If the council had said no to Boris' money, it would *not* have gone unspent, but would have passed to the next council instead.

Boris Johnson had allocated a fixed (and major) pot of money to councils that would agree to undertake one of his Better Streets schemes. At the point this money was being dished out, Boris had jumped onto the "Shared Streets" philosophy. The idea was that by demarking the road, pedestrains, cyclists and motorists would all magically co-exist in a spirit of harmony, be courteous and respect each other.

Of course, like everything that Boris touches, it was mainly hype, self-promotion, and yet another mega expensive vanity scheme ( kindly paid for by the taxes of the plebs).

The best critique of the Shared Spaces scheme I've read is an article at the excellent "As Easy As Riding A Bike" blog, at the following link:

http://goo.gl/nML1cp


I encourage everybody to read it.

It is long but excellent read, and injects a bit of sanity into the Shared Spaces trend. It highlights how Boris (& TfL under his direction) jumped onboard the Shared Spaces idea without fully understanding the need for benign separation of traffic/cyclists/ped
estrians when densities and speeds are higher..

Much (admittedly not all) of the noise around Tolworth is political hype, manufactured by local Tories. I note that they don't direct their vitriol towards Boris. I don't think that the Tolworth scheme could never have delivered against the Shared Spaces hype, but I don't think it is all bad. The green stripes are controversial, and a matter of personal taste, but I think that there are some positives:

1. The road safety engineers are confident that acccidents will be lower. I don't think that fact was ever reported by the Guardian/Comet. The engineers provided stats on all accidents in the preceding 5 years, so it will be interesting to look at the stats for the next 5 to see if they are correct.

2. the greenway itself is safer for cyclists than what was there before. With 6 cyclist deaths in the last few weeks, that' not an insignificant benefit. Ideally, from a cyclists pov, I'd like to see the greenway segregated via bollards or raised kerbs to make a dedicated cycle path. And plans to extend it in both directions. Lights might be needed at pedestrian crossings to facilitate this.

3. There are thirty something more trees now than before.

4. All pavements have been replaced, and look better than before.

5. Anecdotal evidence suggests that traffic has slowed down, making the kerbside less intimidating. Remember that this was a 20mph area before this scheme was launched, but cars routinely ignored it.

6. Shopkeepers seem to think it has made the area more attractive. Whether that translates into more trade i don't know, but Tolworth is undoubtedly on the up at the moment, attracting many new families into the area.

Overall, I don't think that this scheme could ever have delivered the lofty promenade type nonsense that was being pedalled by TfL a few years ago, but it's not all bad either.
[quote][p][bold]SteveC1964[/bold] wrote: "The vast majority of the money came from Boris and TfL." Where did Boris and TfL get the money from capatin_shamrock? Did they find some gold doubloons buried under the railings? No, they got it from our taxes.[/p][/quote]And if it wasn't going to Tolworth, it would have gone somewhere else. That's the way the London Mayoral budget gets dished out. To get the money for your area, you have to go along with the wishes and demands of the person giving it out. And if you don't, then it goes to another area. If the council had said no to Boris' money, it would *not* have gone unspent, but would have passed to the next council instead. Boris Johnson had allocated a fixed (and major) pot of money to councils that would agree to undertake one of his Better Streets schemes. At the point this money was being dished out, Boris had jumped onto the "Shared Streets" philosophy. The idea was that by demarking the road, pedestrains, cyclists and motorists would all magically co-exist in a spirit of harmony, be courteous and respect each other. Of course, like everything that Boris touches, it was mainly hype, self-promotion, and yet another mega expensive vanity scheme ( kindly paid for by the taxes of the plebs). The best critique of the Shared Spaces scheme I've read is an article at the excellent "As Easy As Riding A Bike" blog, at the following link: http://goo.gl/nML1cp I encourage everybody to read it. It is long but excellent read, and injects a bit of sanity into the Shared Spaces trend. It highlights how Boris (& TfL under his direction) jumped onboard the Shared Spaces idea without fully understanding the need for benign separation of traffic/cyclists/ped estrians when densities and speeds are higher.. Much (admittedly not all) of the noise around Tolworth is political hype, manufactured by local Tories. I note that they don't direct their vitriol towards Boris. I don't think that the Tolworth scheme could never have delivered against the Shared Spaces hype, but I don't think it is all bad. The green stripes are controversial, and a matter of personal taste, but I think that there are some positives: 1. The road safety engineers are confident that acccidents will be lower. I don't think that fact was ever reported by the Guardian/Comet. The engineers provided stats on all accidents in the preceding 5 years, so it will be interesting to look at the stats for the next 5 to see if they are correct. 2. the greenway itself is safer for cyclists than what was there before. With 6 cyclist deaths in the last few weeks, that' not an insignificant benefit. Ideally, from a cyclists pov, I'd like to see the greenway segregated via bollards or raised kerbs to make a dedicated cycle path. And plans to extend it in both directions. Lights might be needed at pedestrian crossings to facilitate this. 3. There are thirty something more trees now than before. 4. All pavements have been replaced, and look better than before. 5. Anecdotal evidence suggests that traffic has slowed down, making the kerbside less intimidating. Remember that this was a 20mph area before this scheme was launched, but cars routinely ignored it. 6. Shopkeepers seem to think it has made the area more attractive. Whether that translates into more trade i don't know, but Tolworth is undoubtedly on the up at the moment, attracting many new families into the area. Overall, I don't think that this scheme could ever have delivered the lofty promenade type nonsense that was being pedalled by TfL a few years ago, but it's not all bad either. captain_shamrock

6:56pm Mon 9 Dec 13

concernedofkingston says...

I can't help thinking this (forseeable?) problem is ironic given that a lot of the current wave of snappy "mission statements" (spin in a slogan) for councils across the country that elected members have approved to guide officers providing services to taxpayers are along the lines "Right First Time" (emphasising the need to cut out expensive reviews and corrective solutions). They do have a positive intention since failure to obey the Statements in cash strapped councils increases the risk of further service cuts/job losses (due to additional costs incurred) and (time consuming) competence proceedings against staff. Just a thought.
I can't help thinking this (forseeable?) problem is ironic given that a lot of the current wave of snappy "mission statements" (spin in a slogan) for councils across the country that elected members have approved to guide officers providing services to taxpayers are along the lines "Right First Time" (emphasising the need to cut out expensive reviews and corrective solutions). They do have a positive intention since failure to obey the Statements in cash strapped councils increases the risk of further service cuts/job losses (due to additional costs incurred) and (time consuming) competence proceedings against staff. Just a thought. concernedofkingston

11:01pm Wed 11 Dec 13

DREABY says...

has anyone seen a cyclist use it yet?
has anyone seen a cyclist use it yet? DREABY

5:26pm Thu 19 Dec 13

pinky107 says...

the whole thing is badly designed , ill thought out rubbish .
it may have saved some cyclists lives but theyre a law unto themselves any way plus there have been 4 accidents in the past month so no , it hasnt helped . safety barriers ? well the clue is in the name .
the planks of wood are ugly and block the view of pedestrians seing acyclist coming as they dont slow down .
the crossings are dangerous as they are not clearly marked for anyone to know . the benches are un-planed so splinters are sticking out , are too close to the road and make a great bin for the countless takeaways . it has brought new business to the area though , 2 more coffee shops , oooh just what we really need .
the greenway crap is an unwanted eyesore and has created more traffic than before .
there are so many faults with the whole thing we could go on for hours , the pluses would take a second , none what so ever .
we did pay for this and though boris is mayor i doubt he'd seen the plans as he just signs a cheque . it's another money pit just like the rose theatre .
the designer should keep his kid away from his drawing board and the person who o.k'd it fired . and tolworth residents given a rebate on their council tax , because we paid towards it and objected to it form day one !
the whole thing is badly designed , ill thought out rubbish . it may have saved some cyclists lives but theyre a law unto themselves any way plus there have been 4 accidents in the past month so no , it hasnt helped . safety barriers ? well the clue is in the name . the planks of wood are ugly and block the view of pedestrians seing acyclist coming as they dont slow down . the crossings are dangerous as they are not clearly marked for anyone to know . the benches are un-planed so splinters are sticking out , are too close to the road and make a great bin for the countless takeaways . it has brought new business to the area though , 2 more coffee shops , oooh just what we really need . the greenway crap is an unwanted eyesore and has created more traffic than before . there are so many faults with the whole thing we could go on for hours , the pluses would take a second , none what so ever . we did pay for this and though boris is mayor i doubt he'd seen the plans as he just signs a cheque . it's another money pit just like the rose theatre . the designer should keep his kid away from his drawing board and the person who o.k'd it fired . and tolworth residents given a rebate on their council tax , because we paid towards it and objected to it form day one ! pinky107

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