New Crossrail could go to Clapham Junction, Tooting Broadway, Wimbledon and extend to Kingston, Twickenham and Epsom

London First have proposed building Crossrail 2 with this proposed route

London First have proposed building Crossrail 2 with this proposed route

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The Government has been urged to get behind ambitious proposals to bring Crossrail 2 to south-west London.

As reported yesterday, business leaders have brought forward proposals to bring a next phase of Crossrail to the capital in the 2020s, to be discussed tonight.

The plan is backed by London's mayor, Boris Johnson, who said the case for Crossrail 2 was "incontestable".

London First’s proposed route would involve building an underground tunnel from Wimbledon to Tottenham Hale via Tooting Broadway, Clapham Junction, and a number of central London stops.

The lobbying group's Crossrail taskforce, chaired by former transport secretary Andrew, Lord Adonis, proposes Crossrail 2 via Wimbledon would include separate branches to Epsom, Chessington South via Surbiton, Hampton Court and Twickenham via Kingston.

In its report, launched today, Lord Adonis said: “We urge the Mayor and central government to take forward preparations for Crossrail 2, including a credible funding plan embracing the public and private sectors, with a view to construction in the 2020s.

“London has opened only one and a half new underground lines since the Second World War (the Victoria line and the Jubilee Line Extension).

“Crossrail 2 will be as essential as Crossrail 1 for London to provide jobs and prosperity in the next generation.”

They also said the need for Crossrail 2 has become greater since the Government decided to press ahead with a new high-speed rail link to Birmingham and the North (High Speed 2, or HS2) – which would put more strain on Euston station.

Boris: "There is no time to lose"

Mr Johnson said: “The case for the construction of Crossrail 2 is incontestable and is made forcibly in this report.

"Over the next 20 years London’s population is forecast to expand to levels that will clog the Tube and rail arteries of our great city if we do not provide more capacity.

"There is no time to lose and my team will work closely with London First and others on developing plans for this vital railway.”

Network Rail have also thrown their support behind Crossrail 2.

The rail operator's chief executive, David Higgins, said: “Our projections show that, by 2031, we will need to accommodate 36 per cent more commuters into London each day.

"Network Rail is already delivering the biggest capacity improvement programme since the Victorian era, but even that will not be enough on some routes.

“A regional Crossrail 2 scheme will provide the capacity we need to provide for the commuters of the future, providing extra capacity to and through central London and easing overcrowding on the already congested routes into Waterloo and Liverpool Street.”

The proposal for the route is set to be reviewed early next year by the Department for Transport.

Comments (14)

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2:53pm Tue 5 Feb 13

DB says...

I'd love to see something like this going ahead - anything to reduce the stranglehold that SWT have on the transport in outer South West London has got to be positive.

I think that my only disappointment is that the proposed route still does not give travellers from Kingston and Surbiton the options that they really want, namely a direct connection into the City at Bank or Liverpool Street and a better link to Heathrow airport.

Heathrow is Kingston's 'local' airport and provides as with lots of lovely noise pollution, but it is quicker to get to Gatwick 30-odd miles away!

On the upside, it is encouraging to see that the proposed lines are not being
extended far beyond the boundary of Greater London itself so we are less likely to be greeted by trains already too busy to get on because they have come all the way from the coast before arriving at Kingston/Surbiton.

I'd be interested to see how the lines are actually planned. The article mention a tunnel for the part in central London, but it is quite built up around here as well, so I can't see how we can just build too many new lines.

For example, there is already a line running between Surbiton and Hampton Court. Would this proposal just widen that? We certainly don't want Crossrail 2 to share tracks with SWT because that won't really improve anything at all.
I'd love to see something like this going ahead - anything to reduce the stranglehold that SWT have on the transport in outer South West London has got to be positive. I think that my only disappointment is that the proposed route still does not give travellers from Kingston and Surbiton the options that they really want, namely a direct connection into the City at Bank or Liverpool Street and a better link to Heathrow airport. Heathrow is Kingston's 'local' airport and provides as with lots of lovely noise pollution, but it is quicker to get to Gatwick 30-odd miles away! On the upside, it is encouraging to see that the proposed lines are not being extended far beyond the boundary of Greater London itself so we are less likely to be greeted by trains already too busy to get on because they have come all the way from the coast before arriving at Kingston/Surbiton. I'd be interested to see how the lines are actually planned. The article mention a tunnel for the part in central London, but it is quite built up around here as well, so I can't see how we can just build too many new lines. For example, there is already a line running between Surbiton and Hampton Court. Would this proposal just widen that? We certainly don't want Crossrail 2 to share tracks with SWT because that won't really improve anything at all. DB
  • Score: 0

3:10pm Tue 5 Feb 13

ruggabugga says...

This is a great idea, but we desperately needs the AirLink connection to Heathrow (via Staines) before 2030.
This is a great idea, but we desperately needs the AirLink connection to Heathrow (via Staines) before 2030. ruggabugga
  • Score: 0

3:11pm Tue 5 Feb 13

DB says...

Also, I should say that the Kingston borough seems very well catered for here.

Despite the fast link from Surbiton into Waterloo, I do think Kingston is something of a forgotten borough when it comes to transport - no tube, nightbus network only very recently here, no links to airports.

Obviously the transport planners have always preferred north London to south as is evidenced by the ridiculous zone 9 tube extension, but Kingston is pretty badly served even for the south.

I am not saying I'd like Kingston to be like Croydon, but look at the hub that has become with trains that run all night from London, a very quick link to Gatwick airport, the tube, a lot of nightbuses and it's own tram network.
Also, I should say that the Kingston borough seems very well catered for here. Despite the fast link from Surbiton into Waterloo, I do think Kingston is something of a forgotten borough when it comes to transport - no tube, nightbus network only very recently here, no links to airports. Obviously the transport planners have always preferred north London to south as is evidenced by the ridiculous zone 9 tube extension, but Kingston is pretty badly served even for the south. I am not saying I'd like Kingston to be like Croydon, but look at the hub that has become with trains that run all night from London, a very quick link to Gatwick airport, the tube, a lot of nightbuses and it's own tram network. DB
  • Score: 0

3:23pm Tue 5 Feb 13

mangad says...

There was no "ridiculous zone 9 tube extension". Zone 9 exists to support the fact that the Metropolitan Line goes outside of London. There's only two stations and neither are in any way new. Amersham opened in 1892; Chesham in 1889.

There's been a zone for Amersham and Chesham for both stations for a long time - it was zone D until 2008.

The only way for Zone 9 not to exist would be to shut down the Met's end reaches.
There was no "ridiculous zone 9 tube extension". Zone 9 exists to support the fact that the Metropolitan Line goes outside of London. There's only two stations and neither are in any way new. Amersham opened in 1892; Chesham in 1889. There's been a zone for Amersham and Chesham for both stations for a long time - it was zone D until 2008. The only way for Zone 9 not to exist would be to shut down the Met's end reaches. mangad
  • Score: 0

4:04pm Tue 5 Feb 13

Dan Filson says...

Politics is about priorities, and the allocation of scarce resources. I cannot see this happening in a month of Sundays. The cost of a line with extensive tunnelling at several million or billion a mile puts this well down the national priority list, and unlike Crossrail 1 there is not an obvious torrent of potential demand. London Overground has shown there is a demand for fresh or refreshed lines but anything involving tunnelling has to have a colossally good case. Is there a demand for the lines from Hampton Court, Chessington and Wimbledon to run via Victoria AS WELL AS to Waterloo? Yes, I agree the line south of Kings Cross are very squashed but non stop between Kings Cross and Victoria save for a single stop at Tottenham Court Road? And if there is to be a stretch through Chelsea, then just one stop somewhere on King's Road won't relieve pressure on the District Line to Wimbledon.
Politics is about priorities, and the allocation of scarce resources. I cannot see this happening in a month of Sundays. The cost of a line with extensive tunnelling at several million or billion a mile puts this well down the national priority list, and unlike Crossrail 1 there is not an obvious torrent of potential demand. London Overground has shown there is a demand for fresh or refreshed lines but anything involving tunnelling has to have a colossally good case. Is there a demand for the lines from Hampton Court, Chessington and Wimbledon to run via Victoria AS WELL AS to Waterloo? Yes, I agree the line south of Kings Cross are very squashed but non stop between Kings Cross and Victoria save for a single stop at Tottenham Court Road? And if there is to be a stretch through Chelsea, then just one stop somewhere on King's Road won't relieve pressure on the District Line to Wimbledon. Dan Filson
  • Score: 0

5:46pm Tue 5 Feb 13

tjames says...

what about mitcham and morden?
what about mitcham and morden? tjames
  • Score: 0

5:47pm Tue 5 Feb 13

tjames says...

however--this one is for private sector to fund build and run and no subsidy at all
however--this one is for private sector to fund build and run and no subsidy at all tjames
  • Score: 0

6:35pm Tue 5 Feb 13

321200 says...

DB maybe you should move if you don't like SwT then find out how good you have actually got it. We are lucky to live where we do! Quit your whining or move to Kent or Sussex or herts
DB maybe you should move if you don't like SwT then find out how good you have actually got it. We are lucky to live where we do! Quit your whining or move to Kent or Sussex or herts 321200
  • Score: -1

9:13am Wed 6 Feb 13

news-to-go says...

I think It would be very short sighted of the Government to let the Solum and Post office site Housing plans continue until enough is known of this latest rail proposal. This proposal could just be what Twickenham needs. So lets not squander this chance of a lifetime by letting Developers have their blinkered way.

The whole area needs to be put on hold and re-considered with the latest proposals in the fore.

I think the best idea for now would be to build the station part of TRAGs plan B, without the housing, this could be done in time for the Rugby World Cup in 2015, giving a far superior station to the Solum proposal and the current station. And I feel sure that the RFU would be only too willing to support such an idea with a few million £s from the RWC towards the a new stand alone station.
Think of the kudos! Virtually their own station.

So it is time for some co-operation between all parties, of course including the very important Public who will be the end user
I think It would be very short sighted of the Government to let the Solum and Post office site Housing plans continue until enough is known of this latest rail proposal. This proposal could just be what Twickenham needs. So lets not squander this chance of a lifetime by letting Developers have their blinkered way. The whole area needs to be put on hold and re-considered with the latest proposals in the fore. I think the best idea for now would be to build the station part of TRAGs plan B, without the housing, this could be done in time for the Rugby World Cup in 2015, giving a far superior station to the Solum proposal and the current station. And I feel sure that the RFU would be only too willing to support such an idea with a few million £s from the RWC towards the a new stand alone station. Think of the kudos! Virtually their own station. So it is time for some co-operation between all parties, of course including the very important Public who will be the end user news-to-go
  • Score: 0

9:22am Wed 6 Feb 13

Angela M says...

I hope Crossrail will be less damaging than the proposed fast link to Heathrow - a plan which will effectively destroy my home town.
I hope Crossrail will be less damaging than the proposed fast link to Heathrow - a plan which will effectively destroy my home town. Angela M
  • Score: 0

9:30am Wed 6 Feb 13

sfocata says...

As DB says, it'd be nice to see a bit of competition for SWT in SW London (and 321200's "if you don't like it, why don't you move?" gambit is never a valid response. To anything.)

What I'd really like to see is faster trains to Epsom. If this really is Surrey's 3rd busiest station, why do we only get ambling stoppers from Victoria and Waterloo? There should be a couple of Epsom-Clapham-London services every hour, like Sutton has. But as with all of these "ambitious proposals", it's probably either not going to happen at all, or it'll be watered down into something of only marginal benefit.
As DB says, it'd be nice to see a bit of competition for SWT in SW London (and 321200's "if you don't like it, why don't you move?" gambit is never a valid response. To anything.) What I'd really like to see is faster trains to Epsom. If this really is Surrey's 3rd busiest station, why do we only get ambling stoppers from Victoria and Waterloo? There should be a couple of Epsom-Clapham-London services every hour, like Sutton has. But as with all of these "ambitious proposals", it's probably either not going to happen at all, or it'll be watered down into something of only marginal benefit. sfocata
  • Score: 0

10:16am Wed 6 Feb 13

DB says...

321200 wrote:
DB maybe you should move if you don't like SwT then find out how good you have actually got it. We are lucky to live where we do! Quit your whining or move to Kent or Sussex or herts
I have got to say that my experience of the other train companies is much more positive than SWT.

I travel to Kent & Sussex very frequently on the weekends and occasionally in the week, and if there are any delays they will invariably be on the SWT stretch from Surbiton to Clapham Junction, usually delays caused by something on an unrelated part of their network.

Anyway, that is just anecdotal and that fact is that all of the other companies suffer with the same aged infrastructure that blight SWT and caused the debacles on Friday and again this morning.

This, and the introduction of competition, is what would make Crossrail 2 so interesting.

I still love living here, SWT notwithstanding :)
[quote][p][bold]321200[/bold] wrote: DB maybe you should move if you don't like SwT then find out how good you have actually got it. We are lucky to live where we do! Quit your whining or move to Kent or Sussex or herts[/p][/quote]I have got to say that my experience of the other train companies is much more positive than SWT. I travel to Kent & Sussex very frequently on the weekends and occasionally in the week, and if there are any delays they will invariably be on the SWT stretch from Surbiton to Clapham Junction, usually delays caused by something on an unrelated part of their network. Anyway, that is just anecdotal and that fact is that all of the other companies suffer with the same aged infrastructure that blight SWT and caused the debacles on Friday and again this morning. This, and the introduction of competition, is what would make Crossrail 2 so interesting. I still love living here, SWT notwithstanding :) DB
  • Score: 0

10:22am Wed 6 Feb 13

DB says...

mangad wrote:
There was no "ridiculous zone 9 tube extension". Zone 9 exists to support the fact that the Metropolitan Line goes outside of London. There's only two stations and neither are in any way new. Amersham opened in 1892; Chesham in 1889. There's been a zone for Amersham and Chesham for both stations for a long time - it was zone D until 2008. The only way for Zone 9 not to exist would be to shut down the Met's end reaches.
I realise that the extension itself is not new, but I don't understand why it has to be referred to as zone 9 and get much cheaper travel than other people who live similar distances out of London. I bet Woking to London costs a lot more than Chesham to London and I don't think that is fair.

Either way, I was just trying to illustrate how better served north London is than south London. When you look at the tube map it only extends as far as zone 4 twice in the south, whilst it is all over zone 6 in the north and extending way out of London in the NW.

This proposal would do something to redress the balance.
[quote][p][bold]mangad[/bold] wrote: There was no "ridiculous zone 9 tube extension". Zone 9 exists to support the fact that the Metropolitan Line goes outside of London. There's only two stations and neither are in any way new. Amersham opened in 1892; Chesham in 1889. There's been a zone for Amersham and Chesham for both stations for a long time - it was zone D until 2008. The only way for Zone 9 not to exist would be to shut down the Met's end reaches.[/p][/quote]I realise that the extension itself is not new, but I don't understand why it has to be referred to as zone 9 and get much cheaper travel than other people who live similar distances out of London. I bet Woking to London costs a lot more than Chesham to London and I don't think that is fair. Either way, I was just trying to illustrate how better served north London is than south London. When you look at the tube map it only extends as far as zone 4 twice in the south, whilst it is all over zone 6 in the north and extending way out of London in the NW. This proposal would do something to redress the balance. DB
  • Score: 0

10:31am Wed 6 Feb 13

DB says...

sfocata wrote:
As DB says, it'd be nice to see a bit of competition for SWT in SW London (and 321200's "if you don't like it, why don't you move?" gambit is never a valid response. To anything.) What I'd really like to see is faster trains to Epsom. If this really is Surrey's 3rd busiest station, why do we only get ambling stoppers from Victoria and Waterloo? There should be a couple of Epsom-Clapham-London services every hour, like Sutton has. But as with all of these "ambitious proposals", it's probably either not going to happen at all, or it'll be watered down into something of only marginal benefit.
Competition is definitely the key to getting a better service, but it will be difficult to manage.

Take this morning on SWT, another total signal failure caused about 50% of the trains to be cancelled and the other 50% to be about 45 minutes late into Waterloo and very over-crowded. A competing line would have been of benefit here to absorb the extra passengers who couldn't get on SWT, but what about the cost?

SWT would presumably have had to compensate 'Crossrail 2', but because SWT run on a massive subsidy that compensation effectively comes straight from the tax payer.

I think this is why the problems that we have last so long at the moment - there is no way of effectively penalising SWT if they don't recover the service quickly enough so they can take until 'end of service' to do it.
[quote][p][bold]sfocata[/bold] wrote: As DB says, it'd be nice to see a bit of competition for SWT in SW London (and 321200's "if you don't like it, why don't you move?" gambit is never a valid response. To anything.) What I'd really like to see is faster trains to Epsom. If this really is Surrey's 3rd busiest station, why do we only get ambling stoppers from Victoria and Waterloo? There should be a couple of Epsom-Clapham-London services every hour, like Sutton has. But as with all of these "ambitious proposals", it's probably either not going to happen at all, or it'll be watered down into something of only marginal benefit.[/p][/quote]Competition is definitely the key to getting a better service, but it will be difficult to manage. Take this morning on SWT, another total signal failure caused about 50% of the trains to be cancelled and the other 50% to be about 45 minutes late into Waterloo and very over-crowded. A competing line would have been of benefit here to absorb the extra passengers who couldn't get on SWT, but what about the cost? SWT would presumably have had to compensate 'Crossrail 2', but because SWT run on a massive subsidy that compensation effectively comes straight from the tax payer. I think this is why the problems that we have last so long at the moment - there is no way of effectively penalising SWT if they don't recover the service quickly enough so they can take until 'end of service' to do it. DB
  • Score: 0

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